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-   -   Reason Record Questions (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=118271)

XparaMan 2009-11-28 12:39

Reason Record Questions
 
Hi & Thanks!

For several years, since version 5, I have been a Live user. Live 8 Suite has thoroughly disenchanted me and because I vocalized my opinions and dissatisfaction with the Able tech dept., they threw me under the bus with respect to any more ongoing tech support. I'm just saying all this up front so that no one thinks I am some mindless troll out to cause trouble.

I am very new to the realm of the DAW. I am not new to music. What I need is stability and an egoless approach to recording and constructing improvised music. That's what I do. What I recieved from Ableton was pretty much the exact opposite in the end.

Typically I use NI synths, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX and my own multiple external audio inputs via 2 e-mu 1616m docks. This is a PC, Windows XP SP3, high level quad core process and 4 Gigs of ram & 3 fast dedicated hard drives. I also use a standard duel monitor supported Gforce card strictly for the sake of two monitors.

My only real experience with Propellerheads Software has been the Recycle 2.1 program which I use in conjunction with Stylus RMX.

I am going to be straight with everyone right up front. Remember, in MANY ways I am very ignorant to the realm if digital.

I have always heard over at the Ableton forum that Reason's audio does not sound as good, blah, blah, blah, as other, shall we say, "designer DAWs". Is there any truth to this statement or is this just more BS from the biased and lopsided internet?

In Reason Record, can it record itself like Live's session to arrangement? I like that feature in Live MINUS the automation. The reason that I personally HATE automation is it's inability, at least in Live, to accurately log and retain hot swapped midi instruments. In other words, Live's automation is one track minded with respect to the midi INSTRUMENT device chain. I want an exact audio log of each midi instrument's output. I realize that one can just route each midi track back to it's own audio track to record, but that makes for a mainly bulbous CPU load on playback. It also makes for read/write catastrophes just waiting to happen.

I NEED a STABLE DAW. Period. I don't want a DAW that there is a new version "chapter" of every two weeks. Chapters that merely erase one bug to create another. That's ALL Live is good for these days. Period. I can't believe those bozos had the gall to release Max4Live when 8 is still a mess. As stated, that place is run by sheer ego, not an integrity based mentality that places the customer somewhere other than at the bottom of the beta testing food chain.

Right now I am weighing Reason Record against Samplitude, Cubase & Digital Performer. I know that I could just download a demo, but demos are not seasoned human beings. Demos are attractive and enticing packages that I won;t understand for MONTHS to come. What do users with ample Reason Record time under their belts have to say about RR as compared to Ableton Live?

Things to bare in mind for those gracious enough to put up with my sincere inquiries are:

1) I am a musician, not an engineer or scientist. I don't want to have to possess a degree in advanced 5th dimensional mathematics to use Reason Record. Is it's user design intuitive to a DAW novice like myself?

2) I record on the fly in the studio. What is the end result of my musical constructions is the product of chance, not long thought out classical number folly. Yes, I arrange what I record differently than the mere sum of my musical experiments, but this is NOT intro/verse/chorus/verse/solo stuff. KMFDM, Propellerheads, Crystal Method, DJ Koala, etc. These are some of my contemporary heroes. Odd for a guy that grew up worshiping Black Sabbath & AC/DC. LOL!!

3) Does Reason Record host VSTs the same way Live does? Does it LOVE Spectrasonics and Native Instruments Reaktor 5 & the rest of their wonderful synths.

4) And the most important: IS THIS PROGRAM STABLE? Beyond all hearsay. Beyond all fanboy & girl clique minded BS. Is this program constantly being modified to overcome it's premature inadequacies like Ableton Live currently inflicts it's users with?

phasys 2009-11-28 12:50

Apart from the VST support, Record is EXACTLY what you want.

petegwatson 2009-11-28 14:31

Hi there,

I use all of the same products as you.

As Phasys says above, if you don't need to use your existing VST's within Record/Reason then is does everything your want. It is aimed at musician's simplicity of use and producing a great sound without need a huge degree of knowledge (all there is no getting away from needing to know some basics regardless of what package you use).

Reason and Record are the most stable software packages I have ever use and I have never experienced a crash... So far I have only read one post where someone has reported a crash.

Since releasing Reason 4, there has only been one minor bug fix release and that was a long time ago. This is achieved by putting the work in upfront. I was lucky enough to be included in the beta testing for Record and I'd provided great insight into how the company operates and how committed the user base are in helping to create and incredibly stable product.

I think the sound quality of Record and Reason is excellent and you will see lots of feature articles on this site from artists who produce all of the material up to mastering level with just R&R. There are also lots of post in the music form from uses... so you could check out some of those. A recent post by Adam Fielding is a great example of what can be achieved.
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...d.php?t=118134

However, if you want to use your existing VST,s Record/Reason is not the place to do it. Part of the reason the Phead products are so stable is that they are closed systems and in addition to stability they are able to offer very efficient CPU meaning you can take advantage of a lot more insert effects, compression, eq on every channel in your mixer. To a level that most other programme would not be able to handle.

Record and Reason can be rewired in other programmes such as Ableton... and as you already have that programme you could consider this as an option.

Open record, track all of your guitars and other audio that you want. Save the file open ableton with Record rewired and add in your Vst parts.

If you are looking for a single solution with VST as your main instruments, then you probably would be better off with Cubase/DP/Sonar etc. You should probably check on their forums to see what their users say about those products.

i hope that is helpful.

XparaMan 2009-11-28 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegwatson (Post 675790)
Hi there,

I use all of the same products as you.

As Phasys says above, if you don't need to use your existing VST's within Record/Reason then is does everything your want. It is aimed at musician's simplicity of use and producing a great sound without need a huge degree of knowledge (all there is no getting away from needing to know some basics regardless of what package you use).

Reason and Record are the most stable software packages I have ever use and I have never experienced a crash... So far I have only read one post where someone has reported a crash.

Since releasing Reason 4, there has only been one minor bug fix release and that was a long time ago. This is achieved by putting the work in upfront. I was lucky enough to be included in the beta testing for Record and I'd provided great insight into how the company operates and how committed the user base are in helping to create and incredibly stable product.

I think the sound quality of Record and Reason is excellent and you will see lots of feature articles on this site from artists who produce all of the material up to mastering level with just R&R. There are also lots of post in the music form from uses... so you could check out some of those. A recent post by Adam Fielding is a great example of what can be achieved.
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...d.php?t=118134

However, if you want to use your existing VST,s Record/Reason is not the place to do it. Part of the reason the Phead products are so stable is that they are closed systems and in addition to stability they are able to offer very efficient CPU meaning you can take advantage of a lot more insert effects, compression, eq on every channel in your mixer. To a level that most other programme would not be able to handle.

Record and Reason can be rewired in other programmes such as Ableton... and as you already have that programme you could consider this as an option.

Open record, track all of your guitars and other audio that you want. Save the file open ableton with Record rewired and add in your Vst parts.

If you are looking for a single solution with VST as your main instruments, then you probably would be better off with Cubase/DP/Sonar etc. You should probably check on their forums to see what their users say about those products.

i hope that is helpful.

VERY helpful. I had no idea that Reason does not support VSTs. Thank You!

selfdude 2009-11-28 20:57

I am a live 8 user and a record/reason user. I am also a musician not a sound engineer.

I arrange everything in record/reason. I use live for vocal processing, pod farm patch creation, pitch correction and the occasional audio and dynamic processing. I also use it to host vst/vst-i's, though most of that is my sentimental attachment to crystal and pokegy. I too am deeply troubled by live's instability. I can't tell you how many times opening the melodyne plug-in has caused the, live has encountred a serious error and has to close message. I don't rewire and I hardly ever save anything in live. I just bounce tracks to and from it as needed.

I have used record/reason since beta. I make audio heavy, reverb heavy tracks and have never had record crash, ever. Occasionally my line 6 rack device craps out and record says it is putting the module in bypass, but I blame this on the pod farm not record as it only happens when I access patches outside of the record factory soundbank.

I feel like I have really put this program through the ringer and it has never disappointed me. Record/reason has never hurt me the way live has (hence the I don't save anything decision). Download the demo, listen to the music on this forum.

Hope this helps.

sh49004 2009-11-28 21:13

XparaMan I feel your pain. I don't know if you read but I did some ableton bashing earlier this month. Those boys left me hanging for over THREE WEEKS without letting me register my programs online. I had to reformat my PC, and that took away one of my TWO times to load the program (garbage). I was chill for the first week, but after that I told them to go take a flying leap. I love the program. It does so much of what I want in a DAW, but the guys who are in change of tech support are idiots, as well LIVE 8 crashes so much that you wonder why they released it so early. This is the same problems people are having with max for live. All the folks who helped with the beta had many problems, as well since they have SOLD MAX FOR LIVE PEOPLE ARE ALREADY COMPLAINING. THAT IT WILL NOT DO THE SIMPLE THINGS THAT IT SHOULD...like step sequencer with the apc. As many have seen the price in ableton 8 has dropped two hundred dollars (even with M4L and live squared on the way) cause it is so bad.

Ok enough ableton bashing (there program's stability does enouogh of that for me)

I am in the same boat, I need a new DAW but it seems that logic is the only program similar and I do not want to buy an onver proced MAC whose USB don't even work well...

XparaMan if you find a DAW that does it all let us know.....

2009-11-28 21:47

I have been demoing it for a couple of days.
The absolute most important thing I have noticed, is that there seems to be no phasing on input or output.
I have not verified this with equipment, but my ears don't lie.
I have constantly struggled with "other programs", and this is the first that I feel extremely comfortable with.
The workflow is easy at first glance.
The effects are very good. No need to import 3rd parties, they can only screw things up. They designed it this way for EXACTLY that reason. It is a very good check and balance for them, and they won't have to verify interaction with other company's plugins.
Take it for a test drive, and be thorough. Look at the plugins and see what buttons open what. The reverbs have a very nice editing section.
Not that I would use the instruments, but they sound pretty damn good.
The CPU load bearing is excellent, and you always have Rewire just in case.
I think you'll like what you see and hear.

Used with MacBook
Presonus Firepod
Yamaha Motif
Roland Fantom
Roland 1080
Roland 880
Korg M1 (Just because I really like that board)

ritelec 2009-11-30 19:38

I like reason. I'd like to use record in rewire to Pro tools or logic pro. However the program (record) decides to change my default setting of 44.1k to 48k if I'm in PT or LP. Also in stand alone it defaults to 48k. would like to use it but it may be getting deleted and I would just use reason in rewire to PT or Logic.
R

gobobgo 2009-11-30 19:57

You can chenge the dafault 48k to 44.1k in the preference menu

ritelec 2009-11-30 20:14

YES........But it keeps defaulting back to 48. On saved sessions and new sessions in stand alone and changes PT or Logic saved settings when in Rewire.


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