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-   -   Relative automation curves (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=127767)

mattias800 2010-08-05 11:42

Relative automation curves
 
Hello!

Please correct me if this can already be done in some way.

Scenario

Often I set a level of a track, do some automation, say, the level increases slowly for a while, then drops back down to normal.
After some more tracks I find that the level of the track is too high and I lower it. This messes up the automation and I have to go through all automation clips and lower all of them as well.

The obvious example would be fade out of track (which was mentioned in another thread).
I set my master to a level, add automation to fade out the master fader. All is fine.
I change the master level, now the automation will create a sudden jump in master level when the automation starts.

Solution suggestion

Allow the automation curves to be relative, or behave in different ways. Now they are always fixed values.
parameter = automation.value;

A relative/additive would be:
parameter += automation.value;
(automation range -128 to 127?)

Or multiplication:
parameter *= automation.value;
(range 0 to 2?)

Multiplication would solve the master fade out for example. The automation clip would go from 1 to 0 in a couple of bars.

danreneer 2010-08-05 16:13

I like your suggestion, in fact I think I've had a similar suggestion a while back. I'd like the option of relative automation for most attributes in Reason.

That being said, there are numerous way to work around this for simple level automation. For example, you can try to make a habit of always dropping in devices into you combinators which would get automated instead and leave the manual channel trimming to the channel gain or fader. How I usually do this by adding a "Final Filter" (env) and a mixer at the tail end of every combi chain and then apply any sort of level auto automation to those devices. On your Record channel Combi you can also program a Mixer and Filter so that the mixer cuts 100% of the level and the filter moves a small percentage ( I like this method because I think a little filter sweep in a level drop sounds more natural).

You can also just automate the Channel Gain and use the Fader for manual adjustments-- or the other way around.

gorkomatic 2010-08-05 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by danreneer (Post 764943)
I like your suggestion, in fact I think I've had a similar suggestion a while back. I'd like the option of relative automation for most attributes in Reason.

That being said, there are numerous way to work around this for simple level automation. For example, you can try to make a habit of always dropping in devices into you combinators which would get automated instead and leave the manual channel trimming to the channel gain or fader. How I usually do this by adding a "Final Filter" (env) and a mixer at the tail end of every combi chain and then apply any sort of level auto automation to those devices. On your Record channel Combi you can also program a Mixer and Filter so that the mixer cuts 100% of the level and the filter moves a small percentage ( I like this method because I think a little filter sweep in a level drop sounds more natural).

You can also just automate the Channel Gain and use the Fader for manual adjustments-- or the other way around.

Thanks man!! I'm gonna steal this idea. :D

clarktw 2010-08-05 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorkomatic (Post 764976)
Thanks man!! I'm gonna steal this idea. :D

danreneer’s idea is excellent, and it reminds me of something I saw awhile back that I’d forgotten about. Adam Fielding is of course one of our most experienced fellow members, technically and musically. Here’s the link to his uploaded .rps files: http://www.propellerheads.se/profile/?id=13048 . Check out “Lifepod” and see/hear how he uses an ECF-42 filter in his Mastering Suite to fade out rather than automating the Master Level sliders.

danreneer is right: why not throw one in any Combi? It’s small and essentially no CPU use. I’m switching over to that method immediately rather than automating the level sliders. And, thanks to mattias800 for starting this thread!

mattias800 2010-08-05 17:36

Yes, I was thinking about doing something like that, thanks man :)

selig 2010-08-05 23:12

What eventually needs to happen is a 'trim automation' mode that prevents jumps like that. A "Scale" command would also be quite handy.

For all controller data in Record and Reason, there is no way to 'scale' a clip or selection. Right now you can only add or subtract values. One problem that can occur when you select multiple data points, is that when one or more of your selected data points is already at zero you can't lower any of the data points. With 'scaling', zero values are left at zero and the the other data points would be reduced PROPORTIONALLY.

This is one of those odd omissions for Reason/Record, IMHO.

dioxide 2010-08-05 23:40

I haven't read all the replies in this thread so apologies if it's already been mentioned...

I'd like to see Record's clip handles for audio clips applied to other types of automation. The handle sits in the middle of the audio clip and allows you to scale the volume of the clip including any fades in and out. In my opinion this would also work quite well for other automation data.

selig 2010-08-06 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dioxide (Post 765149)
I haven't read all the replies in this thread so apologies if it's already been mentioned...

I'd like to see Record's clip handles for audio clips applied to other types of automation. The handle sits in the middle of the audio clip and allows you to scale the volume of the clip including any fades in and out. In my opinion this would also work quite well for other automation data.

+1 for that…
And while you're at it, I'll repeat a request for MIDI notes to allow 'direct' velocity editing with a similar interface - Just click on the note and drag up or down to change velocity.


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