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Rattmowe 2011-01-14 14:08

New Sample Layering Module For Kong
Firstly, i think Kong is great, especially the synth modules, really powerful drum workstation.

However, i feel there is one thing missing from Kong, which is missing from Reason, and that is
a good way of detailed layering of drums. I find, as a lot of people do, that in order to get good
kick and snare sounds for electronic music, i often have to layer multiple samples, and indeed,
this is entirely possible in both Kong and Redrum by using multiple kit slots and chaining the
gate ins/outs. However, firstly this means you have to use up multiple slots on one drum device
for the kick and the snare, which is a little inconvenient, but the main problem is that it just
offers very little control.

What i find i have to do is use different parts of different drum layers,
i.e. use the attack portion of one kick and layer it with the body of another, and in order to
do this, i have to use another DAW then export the sample and reload into Reason. This is
fine really, but somewhat tedious, and it doesnt allow you to audition your edits in the mix,
i might layer the attack of an acoustic kick with the body of an 808, but then find that the
808 is subsaturating the mix, and hence i have to go back and try another combination. As
the envelope parameters on the NN-nano are limited to basic attack and decay, and they apply
to all samples in the NN-nano, it isnt possible to layer drums like this in one drum slot, and
even if you use multiple drums slots, it gives limited control.

The solution i could envision is a new layering sample module for Kong, in which you can
select multiple samples, and edit each individual sample with a multi-stage envelope on a
waveform display, perhaps also a simple 3-band eq for each layer and maybe tuning too.
Obviously, there'd be no way of fitting all sample display's in the interface at the same time,
so it would perhaps be best to have 5 sample slots, and select each one individually to edit,
then maybe a small display which shows the combined waveform of all the samples. It's
important to keep things in the hardware-based idiom of Reason's interface, so i could see this
module looking something like the Nurse-REX player, this pulls off a hardware-ish waveform
display quite well.

This kind of thing seems unlikely, as far as i know, Propellerheads havent made any major modifications
to any individual instrument in any version updates. But it would be nice to know how many other
people find themselves layering samples for drums, and if they find they need a little more control than
Reason currently offers.


To avoid some of the confusion about what i mean here....

Samples can be layered in the NN-nano, but, attack, decay, pan settings
can't be set for each individual sample, only for the whole module. I have
found this to be somewhat limiting, especially when trying to layer

What i'm suggesting is to improve this, either the NN-nano's functionality
could be adjusted, to work a bit more like the NNXT, or a new module
could be dedicated to sample layering, with a waveform display and
visual multi-stage envelopes which can be adjusted for each sample
individually, giving much more control.

I do, however, respect the Propellerheads judgement about keeping things
as uncomplicated as possible, and maybe a new module would be
overcomplicating things.

It would be interesting to find out how many other people find the NN-nano's
functionality slightly limiting when layering samples..

mattias800 2011-01-14 14:19

I miss a release knob. I would really like to be able to control when a sample stops playing. Am I missing something, is that already possible?

3rdFloorSound 2011-01-14 16:48


The solution i could envision is a new layering sample module for Kong
You know you can do this one now, right? Add a new layer in the nano, bring in the new sample, drag it on top of the first sample.

phasys 2011-01-14 16:52


Originally Posted by mattias800 (Post 832993)
I miss a release knob. I would really like to be able to control when a sample stops playing. Am I missing something, is that already possible?

Create a mute group.

tiftof 2011-01-14 17:35

Kong already has sound layering, so I'm not sure why you bother to post this thread.
You have to this in another DAW? If you want more control than Nano can give you, you just hook the pad up to a NNXT.

Rattmowe 2011-01-14 18:09

Yep, true you can layer up samples in the nano, but no per-sample envelope controls, overall envelope
only offers attack/decay and waveform display would be helpful to see what you're doing, especially
when layering kicks, phase issues can ruin the low end, and it's not always easy to figure out the problem
with your ears. You could use the sample editor to edit the samples in the nano, use fades and crops, but
this would become a bit tedious.

3rdFloorSound 2011-01-14 18:28

Ahh, I'm smellin' what you're steppin' in.

Rattmowe 2011-01-14 18:48

True enough, you can hook up to an NNXT, but still no waveform display, and it is a bit of a tedious
business hooking up to the NNXT and sorting out evertyhing in there.

"- Maybe the biggest design flaw lies within the Nano! It doesnt let you adjust pan and decay of individual samples!! All that layering capabilities and multi sample triggering, but no way to adjust decay and pan?"

--You said it yourself, i want the same thing, more control over layered samples in Kong.....

tiftof 2011-01-15 00:48

I have clearly stated in other posts that Kong is far from perfect, and the limited sampler module is one of the flaws. It strange since it would make more sense if they just designed nano to work like NNXT, with different settings per sample. Still it doesnt take long to hook up a mixer and an nnxt to Kong, and NNXT gives you tons and tons of flexibility, so that might have been their argument. Keeping Kong less complicated for the old-schoolers.

mattias800 2011-01-15 19:00

Hmm, would you mind explaining further? I haven't been using Kong all that much yet.

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