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-   -   Rant - Renovation of the Reason synths (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=138030)

eXode 2011-03-25 10:07

Rant - Renovation of the Reason synths
 
eXode's rant on renovation of the Reason synths and other stuff
This is a compilation of most of my previous requests. These reflect my personal wishes and even though I understand that most of them are unrealistic and unlikely to happen (at least not in the current synths) I still want to voice them! And no, I don't want a new synth unless it's actually a digital FM/Additive synth that do something completely new, but in my dream, I would like to see the existing ones (esp Subtractor and Malström) refurbished to these new specs.

Reason
  • Not a synth, but incorporate an oversampling option to the Reason synths and devices with oversampling option on each device.
  • Master tune knob added to all instrument devices.
Subtractor II
  • Addition of an unison mode with selectable voices, 1-8 voices with detune and stereo spread, both monophonic and polyphonic modes.
  • Addition of a mod matrix at the bottom of the Sub, Thor inspired.
  • Four new high quality "analogue" waveforms with less aliasing in addition to the current ones.
  • Add a new model of the existing filter to either self oscillation or no self oscillation (or switchable).
  • Make Filter 2 multimode.
  • Addition of audio input on back.
  • EXT IN as option on on either OSC 1 or 2 for Ring Mod and FM use.
  • Incorporate an "old school" mode switch to retain backwards compatibility.
Malström II
  • Addition of an unison mode with selectable voices, 1-8 voices with detune and stereo spread, both monophonic and polyphonic modes.
  • Addition of a mod matrix at the bottom of the Malström, Thor inspired.
  • Linear FM between the oscillators.
  • Support for loading NN19 patches and wav/aif samples into the graintable slots.
  • Record stretch and neptune pitchshift technology could be incorporated and used on motion and shift when using samples.
  • Incorporate an "old school" mode switch to retain backwards compatibility.
Thor II
  • Addition of an unison mode with selectable voices, 1-8 voices with detune and stereo spread, both monophonic and polyphonic modes.
  • Addition of a sample playing oscillator supporting the loading of NN-19 patches (only the multisample data) as well as wav/aif samples.
  • Addition of Kong effect modules as filter modules, including the new filter, ring modulator, compressor, equalizer, overdrive, reverb and tape echo.
  • Add the stuff described in Things I think is missing in Thor.
Like stated in the beginning of this rant as well as in the "Things I think is missing in Thor" rant, these are some of my darkest id wishes for Reason (a percent anyways). Also the reason I want these updated and not new synths is that I actually think that the Sub and Malström are excellent instruments at the core and worh expanding on rather than just making new stuff.

dioxide 2011-03-25 10:41

Here's something to think about. Should Thor incorporate more advanced FM options or should there be a dedicated FM synth? I'm starting to wonder if dedicated FM is the way to go. Props seem to like to make things that are user friendly and innovative and if you were able to make FM synthesis as intuitive as subtractive I think you'd be onto a winner. That's assuming it is even possible to do this though!

eXode 2011-03-25 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dioxide (Post 853238)
Here's something to think about. Should Thor incorporate more advanced FM options or should there be a dedicated FM synth? I'm starting to wonder if dedicated FM is the way to go. Props seem to like to make things that are user friendly and innovative and if you were able to make FM synthesis as intuitive as subtractive I think you'd be onto a winner. That's assuming it is even possible to do this though!

Great comment!

For FM I think I'd prefer a dedicated FM synth simply because Thor's interface isn't very practical if you were to do full on 6-OP FM. I'm even thinking that it would be nice with a 8-OP FM synth (inspired by FS1R perhaps) that could also double as a simple 8 partial additive synth. I really think Native Instruments nailed FM pretty good with the FM8.

The Yamaha FS1R was really nice with it's 8 operators, 8 unvoiced operators and a modelled multimode filter ontop of that. Not to forget the excellent effects. It was a beatst to program though, even with a PC editor. If they could somehow retain that amazing power from that 8-OP synth but in a fairly intuitive interface I'd be a very happy chap indeed!

Also I think that for FM it would be good to deviate from the "standard" subtractive form of octave and semitone tuning and allow actual tuning of each operator in Hz (you could still keep octave+semi for simpler applications though). Hz tuning of operators in a FM synth would be very nice actually.

Yes, apart from my various suggestion on improvements on the existing synths in Reason i would love a 'pure' digital synth for FM and additive. It just opens new doors altogether in sound design.

erixandberg 2011-03-25 14:48

+1 for a dedicated FM synth.

@Exode, you mention a unison mode for all the synths. I know that's not the same thing as the current unison device, but could it be added as a new post-processing effects device rather than new parameters on the synth itself?

JiggeryPokery 2011-03-25 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXode (Post 853232)

Thor
• Addition of an unison mode with selectable voices, 1-8 voices with detune and stereo spread, both monophonic and polyphonic modes.
• Addition of a sample playing oscillator supporting the loading of NN-19 patches (only the multisample data) as well as wav/aif samples.
• Addition of Kong effect modules as filter modules, including the new filter, ring modulator, compressor, equalizer, overdrive, reverb and tape echo.
• Add the stuff described in Things I think is missing in Thor.

The ability to do FM/Ring Mod/OscSync type stuff with audio into oscillators, rather than just the current ability to use audio input purely as FM on the current oscillators would be lovely. NN-8.5 .... I like that idea, sir!

While I agree on more Filter-emulation modules, I remain unconvinced modules is the way to go for Thor FX. It doesn't work in Kong, it won't work in Thor: a) it just ties us to having to load a huge machine just to get a nice effect and b) there's no point in doing them unless Props sort out the automation and let us create lanes for every parameter. Do we really need another compressor? So no more synth-module FX, please, no...

Rest of the ideas though, would be very nice to see. Props need to semi-ditch backward compatibility and move those old synths forward with the old school switches for compatibility whoring.

An FM Synth, though... would be nice to go to town on a full-on 8 or more op synth. Having played around with the FS1R samples I have in Retrospective, it's a lot of fun.

dioxide 2011-03-25 15:33

I was wondering if it were possible to create and FM synth that allowed you to switch waveforms in some way. So selecting a square-type wave would pre-configure the oscillators to give you a square sound for example.

One of the best things about subtractive is that you have your building blocks there in the oscs immediately. It always takes me ages to find what I want with FM so some preconfigured wave combinations would help a lot.

JiggeryPokery 2011-03-25 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dioxide (Post 853277)
I was wondering if it were possible to create and FM synth that allowed you to switch waveforms in some way. So selecting a square-type wave would pre-configure the oscillators to give you a square sound for example.

One of the best things about subtractive is that you have your building blocks there in the oscs immediately. It always takes me ages to find what I want with FM so some preconfigured wave combinations would help a lot.

Thinking on similar lines, how about a User-Wave osc, much like that on impOSCar?

eXode 2011-03-25 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by erixandberg (Post 853271)
@Exode, you mention a unison mode for all the synths. I know that's not the same thing as the current unison device, but could it be added as a new post-processing effects device rather than new parameters on the synth itself?

I don't think it's an option because it won't sound as good as the "real deal" unison imho. It could be an additional thing but not instead of unison on the actual device.

Also I do want to add some food for those arguing about breaking the original specs of the synths: Props already broke the specs on another device, twice even. The Combinator. Reason 4 brought the freely routable sources as well as new sources (modwheel etc). Reason 5 brought the 4 CV inputs on the back of the programmer.

Droog 2011-03-25 17:45

ah man i pray for that tune knob on all devices.

the other suggestions i say yes to all of them,

and if i may make one myself the ability to select alternative tunings per instrument. this would be absolutely outstanding on the updated malstrom idea your pushing.

hope they listen to you dude.

eXode 2011-03-25 19:15

And to clarify myself completely (with reference to the other post as well).

The old school switches that I suggest is there to ensure that a song made in Reason 1 will sound the same on Reason 6 or whatever, and that all your Subtractor patches made in the old Subtractor can sound the same in the new one.

I do not however suggest that patches made in new subtractor should be compatible with patches made in old (i.e. someone still using Reason 3 won't be able to load these new subtractor patches).

I hope everything is crystal clear on this matter now! :)


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