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-   -   Sequencer: Combine Song and Edit Modes (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=140582)

selig 2011-06-07 01:50

Sequencer: Combine Song and Edit Modes
 
I've been wondering how the sequencer could be adapted to allow editing while viewing the other tracks and it just hit me. It only requires one small graphic change!

The change would be to combine Edit Mode and Song Mode. Or to put it another way, the change would be to allow Edit Mode to exist within Song Mode. Here's how I see it working.

Just like now, when you double-click on a clip, you are taken into edit mode on that track/clip. With my suggestion, the difference would be that you will still 'see' all the other tracks above and below the one you're editing. And also just like now, if you click on another track on the left hand side of the screen, you will be taken to that track's edit mode. When you leave edit mode, the edit 'area' will be collapsed back into the 'clip' display.

Here's a few tracks in Song Mode:
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/.../Picture12.png


This is the result of going into Edit Mode on the Subtractor Track, SEE? :-)
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/.../Picture13.png
There's a few graphics irregularities that I didn't clean up, but this is the basic idea.

Everything is still exactly as it was in the previous Edit Mode, except for allowing the other tracks to be seen - nothing else should need to be changed. The Edit 'Window' can easily be expanded to fill the entire screen if desired, to function and look just like before.

This is a very simple graphic change that could make editing WAY easier and more 'in context' with all of the other tracks, without changing anything in the current workflow including key commands etc.

The only change would be is that (in Edit Mode) you will be able to see the other tracks, to allow you to do things like scroll around and grab a track and move it closer to the one you're editing (for visual reference).

Simple change - big results, IMHO!

reflectionjack 2011-06-07 06:50

I am in love with this addition suggestion :P

avasopht 2011-06-07 08:52

I could imagine that being awesome :)

Rattmowe 2011-06-07 11:46

I guess this is like the 'Edit in Place' mode in Cubase

This is a top suggestion, I find that I have to flip between edit and song mode a lot to find where i am
in relation to other clips and/or to move other clips (such as some drums) to accompany the part
I'm currently working on.

If you could use a key command to open a clip in this mode as apposed to full edit mode
that would be pretty good (cmd,alt,LMB) perhaps?

Dogboy1973 2011-06-07 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by betweenthenow (Post 872286)
I am in love with this addition suggestion :P

Me too. Flipping between song & edit modes has been aided by the addition of the little 'back' arrow button from edit mode. But there is really no reason why you need the two seperate modes with this idea - the clip is expanded in song mode for editing & then reduced once completed. This would make editing smoother & more intuitive I think. Sounds good to me ;)

I'd also like to be able to zoom in & out with the mouse scroll wheel like I can in Sony Acid. That makes a huge difference to editing. I love the little slider at the bottom of the sequencer. But with zoom scroll you don't even have to re-position the mouse. Just scroll up/down to zoom in & out ;)

JiggeryPokery 2011-06-07 13:53

While I like the idea overall, and often find myself wishing I could see other tracks while note editing, the problem is that automation lanes already have a habit of being all squished up in full-edit mode, and it's often a battle to change the heights of the roll view and two or three lanes just to get the fourth lane you actually want to edit up to a size tall enough to edit it! (And I'm running a 30" rig here, gawd knows how laptop-only users manage it).

So that problem needs to be overcome somehow - perhaps an automatic lane height resizing feature. If I click automation lane 3 everything else in that track automatically resizes so that lane 3 is bigger. I scroll down to autotmation lane 7, click it, again, lane 7 height is increased and everything else reduced proportionally.

More than anything though ... automation and notes need a "link all" option so we can drag a note and it's association automation at the same bleedin' time!

lofi1990 2011-06-07 16:29

It would be really helpful if you could view multiple tracks in edit mode, and move notes from one clip to another. A large monitor with high resolution would almost be a requirement though.

selig 2011-06-07 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogboy1973 (Post 872318)
Me too. Flipping between song & edit modes has been aided by the addition of the little 'back' arrow button from edit mode. But there is really no reason why you need the two seperate modes with this idea - the clip is expanded in song mode for editing & then reduced once completed. This would make editing smoother & more intuitive I think. Sounds good to me ;)

I'd also like to be able to zoom in & out with the mouse scroll wheel like I can in Sony Acid. That makes a huge difference to editing. I love the little slider at the bottom of the sequencer. But with zoom scroll you don't even have to re-position the mouse. Just scroll up/down to zoom in & out ;)

At the very least I could use a 'zoom out to all' and a 'zoom into selection' quick command. But can't you already do that (zoom with scroll wheel)? I use a track pad, but I've turned off all the navigation areas to save space and this works pretty good for me - up and down is track height (limited as it is), left and right is horizontal zoom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiggeryPokery (Post 872320)
While I like the idea overall, and often find myself wishing I could see other tracks while note editing, the problem is that automation lanes already have a habit of being all squished up in full-edit mode, and it's often a battle to change the heights of the roll view and two or three lanes just to get the fourth lane you actually want to edit up to a size tall enough to edit it! (And I'm running a 30" rig here, gawd knows how laptop-only users manage it).

So that problem needs to be overcome somehow - perhaps an automatic lane height resizing feature. If I click automation lane 3 everything else in that track automatically resizes so that lane 3 is bigger. I scroll down to autotmation lane 7, click it, again, lane 7 height is increased and everything else reduced proportionally.

More than anything though ... automation and notes need a "link all" option so we can drag a note and it's association automation at the same bleedin' time!

This sounds like this is an existing problem for you, rather than one that this suggestion would 'cause' to exist. But this would be a great time/place to incorporate your 'resizing' suggestions - love to hear more!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lofi1990 (Post 872350)
It would be really helpful if you could view multiple tracks in edit mode, and move notes from one clip to another. A large monitor with high resolution would almost be a requirement though.

As to the last two quotes, I'm running Record on a 15" laptop, and that's where I got the screen grabs from. I'm actually quite comfortable with the screen setup currently, aside from wanting to see all the other tracks when editing. Sure I'd love a bigger screen, but more than that I want to be able to see the tracks like in the crude mockups I provided.

There could be options for expanding the edit window to full screen when activated (it will appear just like the current mode but you can scroll to view other tracks), or to control the overall size of all the edit views at once. I agree with jiggery that each of the sub lanes can be clumsy to control, maybe a 'fit to edit window' command to put all the active lanes into the current edit window would be helpful, or some other way of dealing with the issue globally rather than having to resize each lane (which has always seemed clunky to me).

Thanks for the input and feedback!

selig 2011-06-07 21:28

Edit Mode on 'Grouped' Tracks
 
What about the hoped for 'grouping' feature that would include 'edit groups'? How would grouped tracks behave if the Edit Window was included in Song View?

Let's say you have 8 drum tracks for example, you would edit one of them but since they were in the same 'edit group' the edits would apply across all the grouped tracks. The advantage with this feature suggestion is that you could SEE the other tracks in the group while editing one of the tracks of the group, which is a big deal for me. Being also able to switch which track you're editing (while still controlling the entire group), would be most helpful to my workflow.

I would think that this approach (Edit window in Song view) would actually help deal with editing grouped tracks. :-)

Dogboy1973 2011-06-07 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by selig (Post 872365)
At the very least I could use a 'zoom out to all' and a 'zoom into selection' quick command. But can't you already do that (zoom with scroll wheel)? I use a track pad, but I've turned off all the navigation areas to save space and this works pretty good for me - up and down is track height (limited as it is), left and right is horizontal zoom.

I can't zoom with scroll wheel. I tried it after making the post just to double check. You can use the scroll wheel to navigate up/down the rack & mixer. It doesn't do diddly in the sequencer though. In Sony Acid using the scroll wheel zooms horizontally. Scroll wheel with ALT (I think. Not used Sony Acid much since getting Record) zooms vertically. Very useful for quickly zooming into detail & blowing up the height of tracks.


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