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bodhi71 2011-07-17 18:10

My only wish for reason
The day when reason can be used AS a VST or equivalent in other host programs such as Live for example.
Individually or as a whole rack, whichever.
Rewire comes close, but there are too many limitations that Reason has become an afterthought or only used specifically for a certain refill.
It's the one thing that has kept me from truly utilizing Reason on an everyday basis. I'm directing this thread at Propellorheads, I know this raises the shackles on those who deem Reason as a standalone application, but that to me is the equivalent of saying 'I'm starting a band but only for hurdy gurdy and washboards".
If one could seamlessly integrate audio in both applications or any other DAW, it really would be my last request ever.
I just can't get the workflow using rewire, as much as I've tried, and truly believe that having Reason as a VST would make this such a robust experience that it would jump sales that PROPs would never look back. Doesn't mean that it couldn't be used as a standalone DAW, just one additional feature that would allow users to use Reason in a whole new way.
Personally, it's because of this that when I look for additional sounds or loops, Reason is the last place I look, it's just much easier to stay within another DAW. With that said, having Reason able to integrate better within other systems, it would be the first place I would go.
I don't even see this as a point of argument, Reason at the end of the day, is a creative tool, and having this OPTION would open up so many possibilities, that I truly believe would create such a resounding approval within the audio community, that it would become the MUST HAVE application, more than any other VST on the market.
For those who want to stay within the realm of just Reason, no harm done, but those of us who enjoy Reason as well as other applications, there has been a workflow issue that never truly has been addressed. I've heard the argument of stability, but that never really made any sense to me, if other companies such as NI or Spectrasonics can create stable platforms that are just as complex as Reason, why hasn't Reason even attempted to explore this area.
I've requested this before, and I know they were following the Record direction, now integrating Record directly into Reason. Using Reason as a VST seems like such an overlooked benefit that there a many musicians that have moved on to using more complete solutions, abandoning Reason, in favor of a easier workflow.
And as Reason keeps adding better and cooler effects and modules, it becomes a more painful and urgent request, because I don't want to abandon either Live or Reason, but haven't upgraded since version 4, because I can justify the additional cost at the expense of workflow.

bodhi71 2011-07-17 18:13

One day I imagine dropping a Kong drum machine into a midi track or Thor along side Omnishere. With audio tracks warped and looped in Live. I pray for the day...

selig 2011-07-17 19:47

I use Reason ReWired all the time and feel it's dirt simple. The only difference between using it as a ReWire slave and as a plugin would be (as long as the window could be full screen) the fact that you have to manually load the Reason song file. A plugin would save this step. But the routing of multiple channels into the host app could be quite tricky as a plugin, not to mention routing multiple MIDI tracks.

But my question to the OP is this: what are the workflow differences you would see between ReWire and a Plugin?

tiftof 2011-07-17 19:55

I guess automation within the host.

BTW I love how Reaper automatically opens up Reason. Feels just like a plugin!

Anomecron 2011-07-17 21:59


Originally Posted by nova123 (Post 891182)
Rewire is for audio, not for MIDI editing. MIDI running means real playing, rather than audio recorded, that is something dead for a musician.

Excuse Me !!!!!!!!!!

You can sequence all Reason devices from another host without ever using the Reason sequencer - I have no idea what you are referring to here.
I used to use Reason 3 with Live and Sequence ALL Reason device from Live without ever using the Reason sequencer.
It pipes Audio From Slave to Host and Midi from Host to Slave.
You could even play Reason devices in realtime and record them as Audio clips in Live with the entire midi setup being done from within Live itself.
Hell I have even sequenced Reason devices using Logic's sequencer too.

odarellmc 2011-07-18 02:22


Originally Posted by nova123 (Post 891224)
come on, everyone knows rewire is a nightmare: if you want to play, say, 10 different songs back to back in real time, made with reason + vsti plugins the only way you can do that is bouncing the original reason midi events in various audio tracks of a DAW. That is bad, because it is not music, it is playback, something dead. Guess if i want to play live my hardware electronic gear, let's say a novation a roland and a korg machine... and one of them has no midi connections! What do you do? You record what you played home and launch a cd? That is why MIDI was introduced in 1983. And so for vsti! So, rewire may be comfortable for those who need to have a clean audio signal, for mastering... not for music, real electronic music (midi events in real time). I hope I was clear, sorry for my english, but i have no mothertongue plug-in (only italian rewired into english channel, so to speak).

real electronic music? u mean like stevie wonder used to do it, moog, arp, rhodes and clavinet straight to tape?

im sure youre far from that, vst, rewire what have u, its all mechanical at this point. heres the thing does reason give u the tool to write a great song? yes! you can play your hardware synths live straight into reason, give youre "electronic songs" some humanity, thats how i would do it, but everyones different, i choose to use reasons small limitations to think of ways to be more creative.......bottom line a good song is a good song no matter what, with or without vsts, and to be honest ive heard very little of good songs even by the users here..i say we have a long way to go..all of us, and vsts arent going to help the songs get better.. so focus on vst and midi out if you like..reason has given me the tools now its up to me....

selig 2011-07-18 02:45

All I know is ReWire has worked as well as any plugin I've used, and I'd by happy using it live.

I've been lucky I guess, because I've never had a problem in about a decade of use - it's always been totally transparent in operation IMHO.

Sorry to hear that others haven't been so lucky.

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