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-   -   Link Mixer Faders in Reason (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=149028)

PrecursorProductions 2011-10-26 03:00

Link Mixer Faders in Reason
 
The one feature that I find to be a glaring omission in Reason 6 is the ability to link multiple channels together on the mixer so that their levels can all be easily adjusted at one time. This is a core feature in workstations such as Logic, Cubase, Reaper, etc., where selecting multiple channels allows the user to adjust their levels such that amplitude will scale to keep the relative channel levels consistent.

I teach pro audio production and a very significant topic in our lessons is gain structure. A common problem that occurs in mixing is that the sum of a number of the mixer channels begins to cause output clipping. A simple remedy for this problem is to link the offending faders together and attenuate their level. It is very common during the mixing process to periodically link all of the faders on the mixer together in order to reduce their level and create more headroom for the mix.

Currently the only way to resolve this problem is through complex and time-consuming workarounds which involve manually routing CV to create fader groups:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT7h_KvQFWg

Mixer channel fader linking would be a very simple feature to implement and it would really enhance Reason's efficacy as a professional mixing environment and teaching tool.

selig 2011-10-26 03:49

While I agree with this suggestion and have also made the same suggestion myself, in a floating point system like Reason you can simply pull the master fader down to eliminate any and all clipping. Having said that, I see no reason not to add this feature.

IMHO…
Gain staging is soon to be a thing of the past, with most audio recording systems using a floating point architecture including the new version of Pro Tools (v10). Now is the time to teach the new techniques that are specific to this type of audio system. While gain staging is still important in fixed point digital systems and analog consoles, most folks don't have access to an analog console or use a fixed point system (or at least not for long on the fixed point systems).

So the workaround you mention isn't the only way to solve the problem of clipping the outputs, and it may not always be the best way (nor necessarily the easiest way) to solve the problem. When teaching the "pull down all faders" method, it should be pointed out that doing so will affect any dynamics devices down stream like the Master Compressor and master channel inserts like a limiter. Which is to say, pulling the faders down may change your mix, and will required additional work to restore the previous mix.

Of course, if there are no dynamics devices on the mix bus, what I've just said means absolutely nothing. :-)

[Oh, and welcome to the forums - glad you finally decided to post after joining 10 years ago! ;-)]

Auditory 2011-10-26 08:31

I agree with this 100%. Pulling master fader down brings everything down but what if I want all vocals turned down and there is 40 tracks of vocals? I figured holding shift and selecting multiple channels would have allowed me to gain control of all selected faders with one touch. I was wrong though. Would love the feature in the next reason

jlgrimes 2011-10-26 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditory (Post 951043)
I agree with this 100%. Pulling master fader down brings everything down but what if I want all vocals turned down and there is 40 tracks of vocals? I figured holding shift and selecting multiple channels would have allowed me to gain control of all selected faders with one touch. I was wrong though. Would love the feature in the next reason

Yeah this is one of the most needed features. Becomes very important when working with many tracks and no mixer controller.

selig 2011-10-26 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditory (Post 951043)
I agree with this 100%. Pulling master fader down brings everything down but what if I want all vocals turned down and there is 40 tracks of vocals? I figured holding shift and selecting multiple channels would have allowed me to gain control of all selected faders with one touch. I was wrong though. Would love the feature in the next reason

That's a great point! But for me, I'm bussing all the vocals to a sub-mix channel (old habit, for many reasons) so the fix would be easy. ;-)

Like I've already said, I'd really like to see this feature! My reasons don't appear to be the same as others though. For me, it's the soloing and muting that I find frustrating because the workaround for that isn't nearly as simple as the workarounds I've mentioned for the problems in this this thread. Additionally, there are related features like grouped editing that are essential for larger sessions.

For example, what if I wanted to copy the first chorus into the second chorus with 40 vocals tracks? And what if I wanted to put a crossfade on that edit (x40)? And what if I wanted to hide those 40 tracks and just work with the sub-mix fader?

I'm confident that the Props are at least aware of this omission, and have high hopes that there's a fix in the works. :-)

DidrikM 2011-10-26 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auditory (Post 951043)
I agree with this 100%. Pulling master fader down brings everything down but what if I want all vocals turned down and there is 40 tracks of vocals? I figured holding shift and selecting multiple channels would have allowed me to gain control of all selected faders with one touch. I was wrong though. Would love the feature in the next reason

You can create a sub mix channel by connecting connecting the direct outs of the channels (breaks the internal mixing) to an audio spider, a bunch of audio spiders, or for bigger mixes a 14:2 mixer as a summer. Then you connect the spider/14:2 output to a new SSL mix channel. Now you can individually mix the channels, apply M class compression and other effects to the whole group, as well as change the level of the whole group with the final mix channel. Better than the CV routing method, in my opinion.
And not to be forgotten, every single parameter on the mixer strip can be automated, if you need it.

selig 2011-10-26 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DidrikM (Post 951361)
You can create a sub mix channel by connecting connecting the direct outs of the channels (breaks the internal mixing) to an audio spider, a bunch of audio spiders, or for bigger mixes a 14:2 mixer as a summer. Then you connect the spider/14:2 output to a new SSL mix channel. Now you can individually mix the channels, apply M class compression and other effects to the whole group, as well as change the level of the whole group with the final mix channel. Better than the CV routing method, in my opinion.
And not to be forgotten, every single parameter on the mixer strip can be automated, if you need it.

One method isn't better than the other IMO. It's like saying a compressor is better than a limiter; they're similar, but they do different things. Fader groups aren't the same thing as audio sub-mixes. Often I'll use both methods together, for various reasons. Remember that fader groups typically also includes mutes/solos. At first they may seem like they do the same thing, but they don't - the differences may be lost on some, but for me they are both essential functions.

For example, say we've got a bunch of audio tracks, let's say drums for the sake of this example. With a sub-mix solution, when I solo the sub-mix channel I can't hear anything. But if I had fader groups, I could use any solo button in the group to solo all the drums. :-)

sanderbongertman 2011-10-27 00:39

Same goes for changing multiple HPF's etc. We just need to be able to select multiple channels which lets us change the same parameter on every one of those channels simultaneously.

Auditory 2011-10-27 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by DidrikM (Post 951361)
You can create a sub mix channel by connecting connecting the direct outs of the channels (breaks the internal mixing) to an audio spider, a bunch of audio spiders, or for bigger mixes a 14:2 mixer as a summer. Then you connect the spider/14:2 output to a new SSL mix channel. Now you can individually mix the channels, apply M class compression and other effects to the whole group, as well as change the level of the whole group with the final mix channel. Better than the CV routing method, in my opinion.
And not to be forgotten, every single parameter on the mixer strip can be automated, if you need it.

yeah i will try that some day perhaps. Sure wish i could simply hold shift and select the ones I wanted control of though

GaugeTDK 2012-03-08 13:27

Agree 100% ... this feature is needed.


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