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-   -   Why I simply cannot bring myself to buy Reason (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=149222)

kolakube 2011-10-29 10:33

Why I simply cannot bring myself to buy Reason
 
Hi guys.

Have now spent many days if not a week with the Demo version of Reason 6. As a way of thanking everyone for the contribution to this thread (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...175#post950175) I am updating here with the conclusion that to be fair is drastically different from the initial question.

I will NOT be buying Reason 6. Even though I think the majority of it is superb.

My reasons are the following. (I understand some may agree / not agree but these are what has put me right off.)

No MIDI Out:-

This has been done to death but those of us with hardware set ups are excluded from Reason. Try as we may there is no easy way of implementing hardware with Reason. Rewire could have been the solution to get around this but read on....

ReWire:-

This has to be the worst invention ever!!! Sorry guys. How PH can come up with a product that only slaves there software to others is pritty much admitting defeat in the first place. I honestly think this is horrendous from a marketing point of view.

If I want to use an effect from Reason in Ableton or a synth then no worries, yet there is no way to get this working the other way. Can anyone else see how this is putting Reason on a lower plain of existence from the off set?

As a total ReWire newbie, this is how I expected the product to work (And if it did I would be buying Reason 6 now.)

I would launch Reason 6 and my choice of DAW (Ableton Live 8 for me) I would then like to sequence my hardware synths and any VSTs in Ableton and then output these audio channels DIRECTLY INTO THE FANTASTIC REASON 6 MIXER!!!!! I would like to make use to the emulation of a hardware studio you only get in Reason 6. Why the hell can the PH not see the potential of there own product like I can????

I dont want to use Reason 6's reverb in Ableton?? Why would I, Ableton has its own reverbs thank you and of course access to other plugs and actual hardware that it allows you to plug in.

Put simply I want a rewire that will output from DAW to Reason 6's inputs. Thus putting Reason 6 on the same level as other DAWs and why should it not be?? Only allowing Reason to run as a slave is absolutely bizarre and makes no marketing sense nor does it strengthen the corporate PH brand at all.


Lack of VST support:-

Ok, before you all flame me for this one I do not think Reason should support VSTs directly. However via a proper version of ReWire. IE I can output my VSTs in Ableton directly into the Reason 6 Mixer.

I totally get why not to allow VSTs into Reason directly as it would riun the stability. But there should be a way of doing this via ReWire.



Ok, this is why I will not be buying Reason 6. I have learned that Reason 6 is its own self contained product and has no want to branch out to include other gear or handshake properly with other DAWs what to me is a missed opportunity and could open the floodgates for sales.

Whilst I do not see reason 6 from that limited self confined view point as it sees itself. I see it as the only hardware studio emulation ever made and a great one at that and an absolute shame that it can only be used as a closed system.

Should PH ever address the above issues what to be fair all boils down to implementing a proper ReWire solution I will be quite happy to stump up the cash instantly but it is version 6, and if these things were to be rectified they would have been done by now.

I am left baffled by PH and their marketing strategies?

n0ahg 2011-10-29 10:45

That is why you can download the demo

emotica 2011-10-29 10:47

No reason to force yourself to like a product. You're not alone with your points about Reason, but you should take what works best for you.

I think that PH as developer is aware of the things you mentioned and the group of people that wish for the same features as you do. I love Reason for what it does, just as I love having REAPER for some tasks I can't do with Reason. You can argue how complete this "Complete Music Making and Recording Studio" is, but I find myself using it for 99% of the things I need. Others may not even be able to do 50% of what they need and consider to be essential for their works, be it a certain feature or a plug-in. I though believe, what most people to have in common is to see the great aspects about the software and be sad about it, in the "man, it's great, why it simply can't..." way.

No matter how you turn it, Reason triggers your mind in a totally different way than anything else.

I don't know which value they put on compatibility in their own agenda. What I would like to remind though, no matter if we take plug-in-support, ReWire Master or MIDI out, all these things would be involving other devices to be used. So no matter if you or someone else is trying to load a file in some years and you don't have that plug-in, you don't have that synth connected or you don't have the ReWire slave anymore, certain parts simply wont play. Until Reason 5, this also would've happen if you don't have the same ReFills that you used to have or that someone else used to make a track, but by now we are able to include these sounds. What I want to say is, that these 3 features all lead to the same reason why they aren't inside Reason yet, and like I said, depending on the value PH puts on compatibility, you likely will never see them in Reason.

BonezMcCoy 2011-10-29 10:53

Just to let you know that if Reason ever became a ReWire host, Ableton Live users would be equally frustrated because Live does not access plugins in ReWire slave mode...

From their FAQ:

Can I access VST Plug-ins in Live when it is running as ReWire slave?
You can use VST Plug-ins in Live only while running Live as ReWire master or as a stand-alone application.

kolakube 2011-10-29 11:03

nOahg - Bizarre answer?? Did you answer the wrong thread?

emotica - Hi mate, yeah, its such a shame as I really want to make full use of the only hardware studio around.

If PH are aware I honestly dont think anything is going to change as they would have done something by now surely

Bonez - Interesting. I wasn't aware of that thanks. Perhaps Reason can never become what I would want it to be then. Very sad.

n0ahg 2011-10-29 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolakube (Post 953057)
nOahg - Bizarre answer?? Did you answer the wrong thread?

Not really, as I said you can download the demo so you can make an informed choice over your purchase and no one is going to hate you for that. Just don't try to force props in to turning Reason in to another run of the mill daw.

Smedberg 2011-10-29 11:10

If midi- Out is a dealbreaker for you I don't understand why you even bother to download the demo?

BonezMcCoy 2011-10-29 11:10

Neither can Live if you rewire it into Logic willing to access your plugins in Live. At the end of the day, the best is to find your winning combo. No one program can do everything everyone wants. I don't think anyone should rely on one program only, but to each their own. I'm quite happy with Reason+Live+numerous plugins but would change for anything that could make my workflow easier anytime. The whole point is keep demoing different programs until you find what you think would work best for you.

BonezMcCoy 2011-10-29 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smedberg (Post 953059)
If midi- Out is a dealbreaker for you I don't understand why you even bother to download the demo?

To know the program, read the manual AND learn it doesn't support MIDI-out?

kb420 2011-10-29 13:23

kolakube, I am also an Ableton Live 8 Suite user. I understand your frustration, but there is a way to achieve what you want without Rewire. All you have to do is compose whatever you want in Live, and then bounce everything down to individual tracks. Once this is done, open Reason, set the tempo, and import your individual tracks into Reason. Then you can mix with Reason's mixer.

At that point, if you feel that you want to add more vst instruments or effects, you can close Reason and re-open Live and Reason together in Rewire mode. Compose with your vst instruments/effects, bounce the new tracks down individually, and import them into Record.

It may seem like a chore, but there are benefits to working like this. Once you bounce everything down to individual tracks, you are compatible with anything. Any time I want to demo a new DAW, I just go to one of my folders that has bounced tracks in it and import them. I was doing that earlier this week with Reaper.

Another thing I want to add is that it really isn't as cumbersome as it seems. You can select all of your tracks together at one time, and Reason will automatically create individual channels for them instead of having to do it one track at a time.


Just remember, perception is everything. I often look at Reason as "the big studio" because of the mixer. This allows me to always think of Reason as the final destination even if it's not. Personally, I haven't mastered using Reason's Master Bus compressor yet, so I end up back in Live with PSP Vintage Warmer and Ozone. I get better results easier with that because I'm more familiar with it, but that's not the important thing. What is important is that I can get what I want out of both programs despite each programs limitations.

Sometimes you just have to think outside the box. I hope this gives you a different perspective.


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