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-   -   An Envelope Generator - Sibling to Pulsar (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=166767)

kingdubrock 2012-09-04 23:59

An Envelope Generator - Sibling to Pulsar
 
This may have been requested before. Id be surprised if it hasn't.

But a really nice velocity sensitive ADSR (and MSEG if possible) would be extremely useful.

Using them with filters is an obvious application. The new filter RE's sound very nice, and give the old synths a new lease on life but I really dont like the way FXpansion has implemented envelopes on ETCH in either the RE or plugin and the AF 1 doesnt have one at all.

But there can be many ways to use this to great effect.

Routing the envelopes out of the synths into these devices works, but not well imo.

Can we Please have this?

Thanks!

selig 2012-09-05 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdubrock (Post 1129891)
This may have been requested before. Id be surprised if it hasn't.

But a really nice velocity sensitive ADSR (and MSEG if possible) would be extremely useful.

Using them with filters is an obvious application. The new filter RE's sound very nice, and give the old synths a new lease on life but I really dont like the way FXpansion has implemented envelopes on ETCH in either the RE or plugin and the AF 1 doesnt have one at all.

But there can be many ways to use this to great effect.

Routing the envelopes out of the synths into these devices works, but not well imo.

Can we Please have this?

Thanks!

I've not seen any requests for a velocity controlled ADSR, possibly because we already have one (ECF-42)? But a drawable envelope would certainly be a desirable device for many folks around here! ;-)
:-)

kingdubrock 2012-09-05 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by selig (Post 1129950)
I've not seen any requests for a velocity controlled ADSR, possibly because we already have one (ECF-42)? But a drawable envelope would certainly be a desirable device for many folks around here! ;-)
:-)

Hi Selig,
As far as I have been able to discern, the envelope of the ECF-42 does not have a CV out and Im not sure if the device is velocity controllable. . Its handy in itself as a filter but it would be nice to drive the cutoff on the Synapse or Etch filters with an independent velocity sensitive envelope for example.

Also, i dont know the precise, ahem, ins and outs of this, but there are shortcomings when using the envelope cv outs from somethng like subtractor. For one thing the velocity data is not sent through. But also, and I dont really know how to explain this correctly, its like the envelope is mono or something. It can drive the cutoff on the Synapse filter, lets say, but if you play two overlapping notes or two notes without letting go of the first one in time, the envelope does not fire for the second note. Kind of legato-ish. TBH I dont know if this is happening on the CV out or in side.

With Etch, the envelope is velocity sensitive but but you have to patch it in some confusing way and even then there is no release setting and the velocity seems to jump between soft and hard without a nice linearity.

Frustrating.

So yeah, a badass velocity sensitive ADSR and or MSEG RE would be awesome.

jlgrimes 2012-09-05 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdubrock (Post 1129976)
Hi Selig,
As far as I have been able to discern, the envelope of the ECF-42 does not have a CV out and Im not sure if the device is velocity controllable. . Its handy in itself as a filter but it would be nice to drive the cutoff on the Synapse or Etch filters with an independent velocity sensitive envelope for example.

Also, i dont know the precise, ahem, ins and outs of this, but there are shortcomings when using the envelope cv outs from somethng like subtractor. For one thing the velocity data is not sent through. But also, and I dont really know how to explain this correctly, its like the envelope is mono or something. It can drive the cutoff on the Synapse filter, lets say, but if you play two overlapping notes or two notes without letting go of the first one in time, the envelope does not fire for the second note. Kind of legato-ish. TBH I dont know if this is happening on the CV out or in side.

With Etch, the envelope is velocity sensitive but but you have to patch it in some confusing way and even then there is no release setting and the velocity seems to jump between soft and hard without a nice linearity.

Frustrating.

So yeah, a badass velocity sensitive ADSR and or MSEG RE would be awesome.


I think that the envelope being mono is a limitation of the CV system in Reason. A polyphonic CV system would solve that although I wouldn't expect anything soon because that would be a huge undertaking of code and probably total GUI redesign and new devices that can generate polyphonic CV.

kingdubrock 2012-09-05 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlgrimes (Post 1129984)
I think that the envelope being mono is a limitation of the CV system in Reason. A polyphonic CV system would solve that although I wouldn't expect anything soon because that would be a huge undertaking of code and probably total GUI redesign and new devices that can generate polyphonic CV.

Yeah youre probably right. I havent played with pulsar enough to know whats going on with it exactly but if you send the cv out of one of the lfos to say, the cutoff of the AF1 it doesnt exhibit this behaviour. It could be because the lfo runs continuously without retrigging.

kingdubrock 2012-09-05 03:55

Oh, btw, Selig, i saw some thread about using the Global EG from Thor to triger Etch, where you explained a way to set up etch in a combinator without CV. I didnt quite get the Thor part happening but at least the combi method works a lot better with the Etch env and "receive notes" turned on.

Helpful! Thnaks for that.

selig 2012-09-05 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdubrock (Post 1129976)
Hi Selig,
As far as I have been able to discern, the envelope of the ECF-42 does not have a CV out and Im not sure if the device is velocity controllable. . Its handy in itself as a filter but it would be nice to drive the cutoff on the Synapse or Etch filters with an independent velocity sensitive envelope for example.

Also, i dont know the precise, ahem, ins and outs of this, but there are shortcomings when using the envelope cv outs from somethng like subtractor. For one thing the velocity data is not sent through. But also, and I dont really know how to explain this correctly, its like the envelope is mono or something. It can drive the cutoff on the Synapse filter, lets say, but if you play two overlapping notes or two notes without letting go of the first one in time, the envelope does not fire for the second note. Kind of legato-ish. TBH I dont know if this is happening on the CV out or in side.

With Etch, the envelope is velocity sensitive but but you have to patch it in some confusing way and even then there is no release setting and the velocity seems to jump between soft and hard without a nice linearity.

Frustrating.

So yeah, a badass velocity sensitive ADSR and or MSEG RE would be awesome.

OK, makes sense - but in the mean time, try using Thor instead, were you can control the mono legato/retrigering and velocity to at least get SOMETHING to work - yea, I know it's not an elegant solution. I think there will be something along these lines soon - "stagger" looks interesting (see a thread in the PUF), but I'm not sure the SDK for REs supports the "Draw" mode.

KenPH 2012-09-05 05:02

A dedicated MSEG would be very nice.

In the meantime, could you use the curve of the Matrix to do some of the same things,
or are there too many limitations with it?

selig 2012-09-05 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenPH (Post 1130044)
A dedicated MSEG would be very nice.

In the meantime, could you use the curve of the Matrix to do some of the same things,
or are there too many limitations with it?

The Matrix produces a stepped output from it's "curve" output - it's not really a "curve" in other words, so it's not going to produce envelopes. :-)

tomduff 2012-09-05 19:24

+1 for this suggestion.

A dedicated follower\gater would be nice as well.


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