Propellerhead Forum

Propellerhead Forum (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/index.php)
-   Feature Suggestion Forum (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Updated M-Class Suite (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=166786)

JensenTNI 2012-09-05 09:05

Updated M-Class Suite
 
I think it’s time for an updated M-Class suite including a metering bridge. Yeah, we have the SSL, but I do love the modular way the M-Class is made. It’s just not up to standard in my opinion anymore and also lacks some features. I’d like to see for example:

1) 8 Band paragraphic EQ with large display (OK, I probably have said this a million times already ;) ) including high and low pass, high and low shelf and the usual parameters like frequency, gain & Q and a high and low cut with adjustable curve. To be able to adjust the frequencies directly within the paragraphic display with the mouse would be a bonus!

2) Master compressor, single band. Yes we have that already, so I’m currently not really lacking anything in this department, since I also own the FET compressor, I’m happy enough with the available choices. A better soft knee algorithm wouldn’t hurt though J

3) Multiband compressor, ideally 4 bands. I have no particular wishes here, only a decent curved crossover with freely movable frequency dividers and the usual controls which are found on the current M-Class compressor. The side chain should be retained of course.

4) Stereo imager with more frequency bands, four would be great, if the multiband compressor has four as well that is. And the X-over frequencies should not be limited to 100Hz and 6KHz respectively but let’s say between 30Hz and 20KHz.

5) Loudness Maximizer with more algorithmic choices (soft, transparent, brickwall etc.). I have no real gripe with the current M-Class maximizer but I do think a bit more flexibility would not hurt. Again, the Ozone one is out there but it’s not my tool of choice here. The 4ms look ahead is very useful and should be retained.

6) Proper metering! As has been asked many times, the spectrum analyser is a must! A proper vector scope as well. The metering itself is well implemented but a “before” & “after” comparison meter would be very useful, if possible in peak and VU mode.

7) I don’t think an enhancer is required since there are plenty of ways to achieve something similar, but if provided I would not say no J
This all of course should be modular, (e.g. separate devises) so that you can use the individual devises within the rack.

One thing I notice becomes more and more rare these days is the little input meter on each effect devise left upper corner. I found this always very useful as it showed me quickly and easily if the input levels are OK. I would like to see this nifty little feature again more often and should be also present on the updated mastering suite.

Now enough of my rambling, nuff said J

rogerlevy 2012-09-05 15:34

1. You can chain 2 or more mclass EQ's
2. You can put an mclass comp in the master insert, which has a soft knee
3. There are several multiband compressors in the factory sound bank
4. human beings can barely hear below even 50hz, not sure how a 30hz split is really necessary.
5. Mclass maximizer has speed settings for exactly what you're looking for.
6. There is a split VU/Peak mode in the big meter.
7. Sure why not, as a RE. Indeed it's really easy to make one as a combi.

Your last suggestion was the best one. I really wish that they had kept consistent with that. And enforce it on combis and RE effects.

Dave909 2012-09-05 16:18

Hearing below 50 hz is indeed tough but one can feel them for sure, which when playing music loud enhances the experience :)

JensenTNI 2012-09-05 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerlevy (Post 1130332)
1. You can chain 2 or more mclass EQ's
2. You can put an mclass comp in the master insert, which has a soft knee
3. There are several multiband compressors in the factory sound bank
4. human beings can barely hear below even 50hz, not sure how a 30hz split is really necessary.
5. Mclass maximizer has speed settings for exactly what you're looking for.
6. There is a split VU/Peak mode in the big meter.
7. Sure why not, as a RE. Indeed it's really easy to make one as a combi.

Your last suggestion was the best one. I really wish that they had kept consistent with that. And enforce it on combis and RE effects.

Good points well made; however :)

1: Yes I can and do chain multible EQs, however, to do this constantly and in a busy mix makes the rack and automation cumbersome. I do also miss some flexibility available on other tools. Just look at that beautiful Ozone EQ, this is really what I'm looking for!

2: Yep, it's there, but why routing if the already existing softknee on the current M-Class comp could be improved?

3: Sure thing, but certainly nothing speaks against a multiband mastering compressor with a graphical crossover display, does it? Again, avoiding cluttering the rack is desirable.

4: As was said before, it does make a difference ;)

5: Sure it has and I'm using it, but since other maximizers have control over how much of each (different levels of brickwall, different levels of transparent, etc.) I feel there is room for improvement.

6: Yep there is, and where is the easily accesible one window comparison meter? I have massive output meters in Reason and they are great but where I have in other tools one comparison meter in one single display (come on, its only four straight level lines, no big deal to ask for, eh ;)) I have nothing that handy in Reason.

7: I agree :)

rogerlevy 2012-09-05 19:05

You haven't posted much between 2010 and 2012, so I'm guessingggg that you're relatively green with Reason. (sorry if you read this before i checked in more detail, you're not new, you just seem to not be super-seasoned with Reason, maybe I'm wrong..)

Here's my take. While fancy GUI's are def nice to look at and handy-dandy sometimes, Reason focuses on stability and flexibility. You can't really have your cake and eat it too in software (look at Ableton), so what Props chose to do was keep it as simple as possible by putting in the bare necessities.

RE fills the gap by allowing other devs to add their GUI's and DSP so Props doesn't have to provide everything - now you have options.

Personally, I appreciate Reason's bread-and-butter, the rack and its "built-in" devices, much more than I did when I first started. Over time I started making my own combis that sounded much better than the naked devices.

Here's one thing I'd like to tell people who post for updates to existing devices in the feature section. It's really, really unlikely to happen. I think that Props introduced RE also to take off some of the burden of device design, so they can concentrate on fixing all the little gaps in the sequencing side of things, drag-and-drop. Who knows what they are working on for 7?

I don't think that an update to MClass is necessary, because of RE's, but also because you can do so much once you learn how to take advantage of what's great about the simplicity of the devices as they are, to make your own custom sound. But it does take commitment and time.

In the meantime, I'd say, rally for mastering RE's with your favorite devs! That's way more likely to get you some of the GUI's you're missing, while still being able to play in Reason's modular playground. :)

MayorMcCheese 2012-09-05 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerlevy (Post 1130332)
1. You can chain 2 or more mclass EQ's ...

I enjoy posting this any chance I get because I enjoy looking at it; we’ve got as many bands as we want. It’s just one of the many EQ setups in selig’s B3/Leslie Refill. Seven (7) MClass EQ’s stacked in series -

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6247344/seli...20stacking.jpg

rogerlevy 2012-09-05 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorMcCheese (Post 1130533)
I enjoy posting this any chance I get because I enjoy looking at it; we’ve got as many bands as we want. It’s just one of the many EQ setups in selig’s B3/Leslie Refill. Seven (7) MClass EQ’s stacked in series -

And it's cool because they can be individually bypassed as groups and folded away, using familiar conventions. No need to learn another GUI.

JensenTNI 2012-09-05 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerlevy (Post 1130528)
You haven't posted much between 2010 and 2012, so I'm guessingggg that you're relatively green with Reason. (sorry if you read this before i checked in more detail, you're not new, you just seem to not be super-seasoned with Reason, maybe I'm wrong..)

Maybe you are wrong, I have made pretty much all my releases on Reason for the last 8 years ;)
PS: Many posts don't equal automatically seasoned Reason user although I would rather rate myself as fairly standard :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerlevy (Post 1130528)
In the meantime, I'd say, rally for mastering RE's with your favorite devs! That's way more likely to get you some of the GUI's you're missing, while still being able to play in Reason's modular playground. :)

All in all, we all cook differently. I do believe that it fully makes sense to ask for improved devises all the time. How would there be progress otherwise. I have a fairly good idea what I would like to do with an upgraded M-Class.

I use Ozone since about 4 years now and I wish exactly these tools where available in Reason, they are just great but I can't stand the other DAW's around so I'm not using them apart for the final master. I love Reason and I'm very happy with it but there's always things you would like to see done better.

Call me lazy but I do want to make music and not spend all that time creating conoluted presets. Saying that, I do create convoluted presets from time to time, but that should not be a requirement for essential signal processors and tools ;)

rogerlevy 2012-09-05 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JensenTNI (Post 1130537)
Maybe you are wrong, I have made pretty much all my releases on Reason for the last 8 years ;)



All in all, we all cook differently. I do believe that it fully makes sense to ask for improved devises all the time. How would there be progress otherwise. I have a fairly good idea what I would like to do with an upgraded M-Class.

I use Ozone since about 4 years now and I wish exactly these tools where available in Reason, they are just great but I can't stand the other DAW's around so I'm not using them apart for the final master. I love Reason and I'm very happy with it but there's always things you would like to see done better.

Call me lazy but I do want to make music and not spend all that time creating conoluted presets. Saying that, I do create convoluted presets from time to time, but that should not be a requirement for essential signal processors and tools ;)

Oops, haha, my bad. Probably was pointless to make that assumption anyway. It's kind of hilarious actually because I've been using Reason in a serious way for only a year now. I *love* making my own combis though. :D

It's been said alot, Props is allergic to changing devices. Apparently it always backfires. Who knows, maybe there could be an MClass2 included with 7 that's backwards compatible. I definitely wouldn't complain.

So, well, I mean, if you like OZone you should talk to iZotope, make them port the other modules. It'll be some time before they do though I think, Props needs to improve the SDK from what I've heard.

Hey, side question, do you use rewire to master tracks you've made in Reason, in other DAW's? Or do you export stems to the DAW?

JensenTNI 2012-09-05 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerlevy (Post 1130564)
Oops, haha, my bad. Probably was pointless to make that assumption anyway. It's kind of hilarious actually because I've been using Reason in a serious way for only a year now. I *love* making my own combis though. :D

It's been said alot, Props is allergic to changing devices. Apparently it always backfires. Who knows, maybe there could be an MClass2 included with 7 that's backwards compatible. I definitely wouldn't complain.

So, well, I mean, if you like OZone you should talk to iZotope, make them port the other modules. It'll be some time before they do though I think, Props needs to improve the SDK from what I've heard.

Hey, side question, do you use rewire to master tracks you've made in Reason, in other DAW's? Or do you export stems to the DAW?

Hahaha, all good, I have seen much worse replies to treads so I got off lightly :D

To your question; naaa I don't rewire. I bounce my tracks as Wav and then load up into Wavelab for mastering with Ozone. Good point talking to Izotope, however I do kinda think that when all is said and doen, with the current STK, the probs simply make the best devises :)


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:16.