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-   -   Reason is getting obsolete (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=168195)

Mizio 2012-09-30 11:54

Reason is getting obsolete
 
I have to say that Reason is getting obsolete and needs to be updated to compare with what is on the market right now.

I still own Reason 4 Record 151 and Reason 651 and i have been recently using a lot Ableton 8 and i noticed the following serious weaknesses in Reason 651 and thay my workflow decreased and showed better results.

- dynamic processing devices are still inferior to Ableton suite, some rack extensions sounds ok but not great;

- Reason mixer needs sub grouping.

- audio quantize missing

- midi out not implemented

- Drum devices like Kong are not flexible and dynamic like Drum rack or the newst NI Machine Mk2 which is becoming more and more a standard in the dance music making;

Furthermore apart Korg and Softube and few others I have not seen a good exposure of decent rack extension so far.

I have beeen using Reason for several years and I still love it but imho productivity and workflow are essential in a music making software.

Yes lack of bugs is a strong point but nowadays almost all software are stable.

Thank you

VillaNDubstep 2012-09-30 14:21

I wouldn't say reason is becoming obsolete. In fact, I think reason has progressed alot even since version 4. Obviously the points you mentioned are very good ones and most people will agree with you that those features found in other daws is what reason really needs to be putting in now, but these are the 4 most requested features by a majority of reason users so there's a strong chance you will see these implemented in reason.
Reason is far from becoming obsolete, especially with the rate the props have been making key updates to the software. Keep the faith ;)

dub08 2012-09-30 14:39

Is the piano obsolete yet? ;)

No instrument is obsolete if there is still someone who wants to play it. :D

normen 2012-09-30 15:20

I have to say that the OP has to greatly improve his writing skills and also his arguing skills.

- No new points made that haven't been discussed for long
- Points made out of thin air with no evidence but the posters opinion
- No mentions of the shortcomings of the other DAWs compared to Reason
- No mentions of the bad quality stretching that Live does

Nowadays its almost a forum standard to have ones facts straight and to bring in constructive new arguments to the discussion, many other posters proved that it can be done. Yes, one can get caught up but nowadays almost all posters are capable of actually giving evidence for their claims.

Thank You

jlgrimes 2012-09-30 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizio (Post 1146839)
I have to say that Reason is getting obsolete and needs to be updated to compare with what is on the market right now.

I still own Reason 4 Record 151 and Reason 651 and i have been recently using a lot Ableton 8 and i noticed the following serious weaknesses in Reason 651 and thay my workflow decreased and showed better results.

- dynamic processing devices are still inferior to Ableton suite, some rack extensions sounds ok but not great;

- Reason mixer needs sub grouping.

- audio quantize missing

- midi out not implemented

- Drum devices like Kong are not flexible and dynamic like Drum rack or the newst NI Machine Mk2 which is becoming more and more a standard in the dance music making;

Furthermore apart Korg and Softube and few others I have not seen a good exposure of decent rack extension so far.

I have beeen using Reason for several years and I still love it but imho productivity and workflow are essential in a music making software.

Yes lack of bugs is a strong point but nowadays almost all software are stable.

Thank you

The dynamic processors will get there

Grouping, yes

Audio quantize. I would be happier with Recycle integration.

Midi out. Not that big of a deal to me but I would like a better piano roll.

Kong. Is not even comparable to Maschine and Drum Racks. Actually none of them are comparable to each other but yeah Kong could have been better. The modules aren't the biggest issue IMO. Flexibility is.

Time will tell about REs. The graphics thing is what is probably slowing down the development time of REs.

It is not that Reason has terrible workflow. It is great in many aspects. I think that they have a ton of glaring weaknesses that stand out like a sore thumb compared to other DAWs where the weaknesses are harder to find. This is mainly because Reason just became a DAW recently. The lack of features in Reason 4 weren't a big deal because Reason couldn't Record audio. Once u add audio, weaknesses stand out like a sore thumb because it is a different workflow Props never had to deal with. Midi out will be the same. Reasons midi will need to get more sophisticated to handle this. The GUI will also be a priority. I think the GUI might be the most limiting factor. It is limiting the REs, Audio editing, device improvement.

Lack of freezing is also a huge concern.

ShelLuser 2012-09-30 15:58

Being a rather veteraned Live user I can't say I really agree with you here. When looking at Live & Reason over the last period I'd say Reason has made a rather drastic "come back". Esp. where audio processing is concerned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizio (Post 1146839)
- dynamic processing devices are still inferior to Ableton suite, some rack extensions sounds ok but not great;

Define "inferior" ?

When it comes to Live we have a 3 or 8 band EQ, a compressor with side chain support and the very handy to have "multiband dynamics" which is basically a 3 band compressor / expander. Very handy effect to have.

Its good, sure, but in the overall based around the same compressing engine whereas Reason provides you with several sorts of compressors to use; from MClass right to Comp or the mixer section. Diversity is an important aspect too you know.

Quite frankly I don't think you can even compare the two environments like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizio (Post 1146839)
- audio quantize missing

Same applies to Live, but don't let that stop you ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizio (Post 1146839)
- Drum devices like Kong are not flexible and dynamic like Drum rack or the newst NI Machine Mk2 which is becoming more and more a standard in the dance music making;

You're kidding, right?

First the obvious: a drum rack is nothing more but an empty container which can be used to place instruments in there and which is optimized for percussion (drum pads). By default it fully involves around the Simpler device (sampling instrument) but that can be changed.

Drum racks do allow for more use of send effects (has internal routing) but that's not too surprising considering that its main workflow fully centers around samples. Although it is possible to use other instruments (Operator, Analog) this is very sporadically used. In fact, I think most Live users don't even realize these options.

Kong otoh... Well, I think it speaks for itself. It doesn't have the amount of send effects out of the box but nothing is stopping you from getting extra through the use of the line or 14:2 mixer for example. That's the main pro with Kong (and Reason as a whole): modularity.

With the drum rack you can't even easily use different velocity strikes when testing your kit, only through the use of the virtual keyboard. Kong otoh; well, we know the pads I hope.

I'd be tempted to agree with you if we were still sitting on Reason 4 but we're not. Reason has made a huge comeback when it comes to audio processing and handling, and that's not even mentioning its mixer section.

Point of the matter is that both environments have their pro's and con's. Which is basically why I use them together so often.


PS: As a funnily meant side note.. You do realize that because of the previously mentioned modularity Reason actually supported multiband dynamics processing way before Live did?

BonezMcCoy 2012-09-30 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizio (Post 1146839)
I have to say that Reason is getting obsolete and needs to be updated to compare with what is on the market right now.

My take on this is if you honestly think it is getting obsolete, jump boat before you regret it. Reason has a lot of shortcomings, like every other DAW out there. But once again it wasn't intended as a DAW, it hasn't been one for a long time and it hasn't even been marketed as one. I have always used it with Live and have always made one make up for the other's "flaws" (mind the quotation marks, please). I have recently added Maschine to my setup and I'm loving it. No, Reason cannot do what Maschine does BUT Maschine cannot do what Reason does either. If I felt for one moment that ANY of my pieces of gear were becoming obsolete, I would get rid of it right away. If you think Live is enough for you and that the programs do not complement each other in YOUR setup, you already know what to do.
Just my tuppence.

TheFatControlleR 2012-09-30 16:10

Oh dear. Yet another plea for homogeneity... :(

charlycharlzz 2012-09-30 16:53

maybe it's your talent that is obsolete !
reason need so much that i cannot count them but It never stop anybody to go , I think the other daws like live are great but 2 me they are for dj's and kids and not for pro's but i bet some pro's use it so I dont say hay live is finished because the dj's can mix two record but not two tracks!

Ostermilk 2012-09-30 17:21

Why even bother typing something like this OP?

Is it because you think we all need enlightening from our own ignorance?

It's a free market economy, therefore I have a chioce and I am also aware of what other products do, actually I own a few alongside Reason which provides a boatload of cool and unique functionality alongside the other things I use.

It's a bit like venturing into some local pub that the regulars have been going to for years and saying the pub down the road has just been redecorated. Who's going to give a rats? What's the best outcome you can see coming from doing that? Sharing ones misery is an option not a requirement.

Have you fulfilled the expectations you had by bestowing your superior wisdom upon us?

If so, well done!

p.s. sorry for the rant but I just get so tired of this kind of post that appears pretty much daily on about every music product vendors forum out there. It must be some kind of habitual outpouring, I recommend next time anyone gets the urge to make a thread like this....fight it.


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