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-   -   Making the sound originate from thin air! (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=168300)

Edouardo 2012-10-02 12:36

Making the sound originate from thin air!
 
Hi guys and girls,

I have a stereo radio-alarm clock from Sony, and there is a feature on it that always amazed me: It's a kind of stereo enhancer. When I select it, it looks like the sound comes from outside the machine: I mean by that, that the left channel seems to come out from somewhere left of the left speaker, as appearing from thin air. The same with the right channel.

I actually wonder if this is emulatable using a soft (or combi of RE's).

Maybe it goes back to a lack of understanding of something from my part: I am quite satisfied with the stereo spread I end up on my music, but I can't get at the level of top notch productions. Even if I pan hard right and hard left, say two guitars (not using a Hass effect, two different guitars), when I play it in the car it's OK but it doesn't reach such extreme spread (while still keeping a musical balance).

Any thoughts?

Musical greetings

normen 2012-10-02 12:40

HRTF effects mostly, theres certain phasing effects that also make this happen, basically if it "accidentally" creates a similar interference pattern than HRTF does. It happens on some Queen albums too, w/o any HRTF processors :) Somebody I studied with only simulated a part of the HRTF with a simple filter bank and he got an effect of the sound "extending" at the back of your head if you had headphones on.. I guess its a bit daunting to copy this effect reproducibly in Reason.. :/

n0ahg 2012-10-02 12:53



Also http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994.../3dmixing.html and http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995...95/qsound.html

Spectrephonic 2012-10-02 13:26

Why didn't take off? Is there a vst counterpart? I use binaural mics to achieve this but a vst would be easier.

normen 2012-10-02 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrephonic (Post 1148136)
Why didn't take off? Is there a vst counterpart? I use binaural mics to achieve this but a vst would be easier.

It did in a way. All stereo speakers in TVs etc basically use it, the Galaxy Tab also uses it, many PC speakers also do. Personally I don't like the effect though, it feels a bit like "pressure" on the ears (akin to out of phase stereo signals) and causes stronger phasing when you move your head (in a speaker setup).

In Logic you can use HRTF exclusively for panning by switching the pan mode of a channel, allowing for 360° panning as well as up/down panning :) I prefer not to ;)

n0ahg 2012-10-02 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrephonic (Post 1148136)
Why didn't take off? Is there a vst counterpart? I use binaural mics to achieve this but a vst would be easier.

It did take off, see http://www.qsound.com/index.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QSound

Can't believe that episode of Tomorrows World I posted above jumped straight in to my head :>

ryszard 2012-10-02 14:24

I had an older Sony portable that did the same thing. There are at least two ways to emulate this effect. One is to use a modified vocal eliminator effect, i.e., inject a frequency-specific reverse phase signal into the center. This will diminish some of the main signal, but will emphasize sounds to each side of center.

The way the sonic hologram (a device made in the 1980s) did it was to invert each stereo channel's signal and inject a controlled amount of it into the opposite channel.

It seems like either of these could be emulated in Reason, but I'll leave it to the boffins to suggest how . . . *drums fingers on keyboard* . . . hmmmmmmm

Edouardo 2012-10-03 17:41

Thanks guys,

It lifts a little of the mystery!

Musical greetz

Edouard

selig 2012-10-03 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrephonic (Post 1148136)
Why didn't take off? Is there a vst counterpart? I use binaural mics to achieve this but a vst would be easier.

These are totally different things - a binaural mic records the positions as they occur in nature, but a synthetic process leaves the panning to you.

You'd have to painstakingly recreate the individual panning of each instrument in your mix, and you may have to consider this when placing microphones in the first place. It could take days (IF you had a 'perfect' tool for the job) to create an effect as believable as a binaural recording IMO!

BTW, stereo recording already "makes sounds originate from thin air" - how do you think the 'phantom center image' works!?! ;-)

Q-sound appears to be more popular in games than in music recording - I've always noted that it seems few who tried it on one project ever used it again on another project (not a fact, I just can't FIND any examples to disprove the theory!). So no, it didn't ever "take off" in the same sense as multi-track, digital reverbs, hard disk recording, ITB mixing, etc. has taken off since first being introduced. :-)

Spectrephonic 2012-10-04 11:39

Exactly, it would be a very interesting thing to do now everybody more or less enjoys music on headphones these days. It's not the same as Binaural mics, I know.. it's the best way to get these results but in a mix it's very inconvenient I agree. I'm still experimenting with it.


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