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-   -   Stupid question: Does the master fader offset the channel faders when bouncing? (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=168618)

fandiaditya 2012-10-08 19:13

Stupid question: Does the master fader offset the channel faders when bouncing?
 
I have some songs with tracks hitting the meter's red zone. I thought that sliding the master fader down would lower the volume for all tracks but apparently that is not the case. Hence the bounced tracks are distorted.

I don't want to have to adjust the faders for all tracks as I have a lot of tracks.

Help, please?

Thanks!

emotica 2012-10-08 19:34

Lowering the master fader should work, if you have no other option left. Make sure to lower it enough to avoid clipping at your output.

fandiaditya 2012-10-08 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by emotica (Post 1151626)
Lowering the master fader should work, if you have no other option left. Make sure to lower it enough to avoid clipping at your output.

No, lowering the master fader did not work. :(

BrrrPeoples 2012-10-09 08:44

if the audio is still clipping even after adjusting levels in the master section, then the audio is clipping at the source device, so yeah, you'll need to bring back the levels on the devices.

I know that sucks, but it happens. It's a good time to think about how you want to approach your leveling in your next project though.

djfm1983 2012-10-09 08:59

The Reason manual says that clipping can only happen on the main output (not on the individual channel faders) due to the 64bit mixing engin. If your still clipping after lowering your master fader it's probably due to your mastering chain final output. Try this, bypass all your mastering chain, lower your master fader until it your main output doesn't clip then add each one of your mastering devices and see which one is causing clipping and adjust your output on that device until you don't clip.
Open up your Reason manual starting at page 70 (if your using Reason 6.5) for info on audio clipping.

MAV42 2012-10-09 15:12

Some transient parts of your sounds are probably just clipping into the red in certain parts on your individual tracks, deffinately remove mastering effects, mix at a lower level on your individual tracks. If you want higher volume turn up your monitors rather than the tracks. Maybe some of the sounds need light limiting to cut the peaks off, often a problem if you've recorded guitars etc.. Mixing with your individual tracks being too hot will always create problems at the final stages especially adding a mastering chain too soon, too much make up gain on a compressor etc on a channel.. Very common problem

TheFatControlleR 2012-10-09 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fandiaditya (Post 1151612)
I don't want to have to adjust the faders for all tracks as I have a lot of tracks.

Two words: gain staging - preferably at device level, though via the gain pot at the top of the channel strip in the SSL if need be, and before touching the channel sliders/mixing.

selig 2012-10-09 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fandiaditya (Post 1151612)
I have some songs with tracks hitting the meter's red zone. I thought that sliding the master fader down would lower the volume for all tracks but apparently that is not the case. Hence the bounced tracks are distorted.

I don't want to have to adjust the faders for all tracks as I have a lot of tracks.

Help, please?

Thanks!

Clipping is indicated by the clipping lights - if they're not saying "CLIPPING", you're not clipping. If you're hearing distortion but not clipping, I'm not sure what's going on!

The master fader WILL eliminate clipping, but only if there are NO devices plugged in between the Master Output and the Hardware interface. If you still having problems, can you post an example? :-)

EpiGenetik 2012-10-09 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fandiaditya (Post 1151612)
I have some songs with tracks hitting the meter's red zone. I thought that sliding the master fader down would lower the volume for all tracks but apparently that is not the case. Hence the bounced tracks are distorted.

I don't want to have to adjust the faders for all tracks as I have a lot of tracks.

Help, please?

Thanks!

What happens if you record the Master Section to a new track and bounce that to disk on it's own? You should actually be able to tell just by looking at the waveform.

Also how are you defining clipping? Are you hearing distortion on the bounce but not on the track when listening in Reason?

Lowering the master fader will reduce the output of the sum rather than each mixer track, so if there's distortion going into the master from a channel fader clipping, then distortion is going to come out unless you bring down that fader.

How many channels are in the red before going into the master? If it's none of them, then how many channels are we talking here?

rlubeck 2012-10-09 17:04

Don't touch the master fader, leave at 0dB

The master fader is directly responsible for the master channel compressor's input. It'll react differently when the master fader is raised or lowered.


Here's a few things you can do.

Timeconsuming, but standard mixing technique, make a backup first:

1. Leave the master fader at 0db
2. Slide ALL channel faders fully down.
3. Increase each channel fader until it sounds right and blends with the previous channel. Starting at the low range, moving to mids and ending at the high frequency channels. (kick, drums/percussion, hihats, lead synths, fx etc)

You will notice that most instruments will sound fine and blend nicely well below 0dB. Where you might have had your kick at 0dB and your drums at -2dB initially, you might notice your drums will work at a much lower value also.

Just slowly fade in channel after channel and don't push them harder then needed.
The more you use this method, the better and more balanced your mixes will sound and the more headroom you'll preserve. No more distortion.



A faster, non-destructive method, like TheFatController said, is to use gain staging (though you should have used gain staging at the start, before touching any faders).

Drop all your channels' Gain pots by -3dB for starters. If it still distorts, increase the value until there's no more distortion/clipping.

Assuming you've mixed everything and your faders are all over the place, dropping each fader by 3dB accurately isn't possible most of the times.
Faders aren't linear, so use the Gain pots to preserve your mix and evenly lower the output of all your channels by the exact same value.


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