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-   -   Super Grouper rack device (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=171283)

jfrichards 2012-11-20 05:24

Super Grouper rack device
 
How about a rack device that lets you run 32 rack channels through it, but does not merge them, it simply allows parallel control over the channels going through it? This would be for group fading mainly, but could allow group effects also, adding any chosen effect to each channel separately, without doing anything to the settings in the original devices or in the SSL mixer channels.

normen 2012-11-20 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrichards (Post 1181319)
How about a rack device that lets you run 32 rack channels through it, but does not merge them, it simply allows parallel control over the channels going through it? This would be for group fading mainly, but could allow group effects also, adding any chosen effect to each channel separately, without doing anything to the settings in the original devices or in the SSL mixer channels.

You mean like a channel strip but it manipulates many channels of audio? One fader and pan that works on many channels is certainly possible but I don't think a device that internally doubles other devices would work (as in your example: you insert only one device and its used multiple times). There has to be one device that works each audio channel.

jfrichards 2012-11-23 22:08

Oops, I guess there already is a group fader function in Reason.

Create a Combinator in the rack (holding down the Shift key).
Add a Pulverizer inside the Combinator (holding down the Shift key) for each device you want to group.
Turn off the Squash, Dirt and Filter on each Pulverizer and set the blend on Dry.
Click the Show Programmer button on the Combinator.
Highlight each Pulverizer and set its Rotary 1 Target on Volume.
Run the audio cables from each rack device (Mix or Audio) that you want grouped into one of the Pulverizers and back into the device.

Now the Rotary 1 knob on the Combinator is a group fader, and it doesn't affect any of the settings on the rack devices or the SSL channels.

I mapped the Combinator Rotary 1 knob to one of the faders on a midi keyboard and it becomes an automatable group fader.

rogerlevy 2012-11-23 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrichards (Post 1183974)
Oops, I guess there already is a group fader function in Reason.

Create a Combinator in the rack (holding down the Shift key).
Add a Pulverizer inside the Combinator (holding down the Shift key) for each device you want to group.
Turn off the Squash, Dirt and Filter on each Pulverizer and set the blend on Dry.
Click the Show Programmer button on the Combinator.
Highlight each Pulverizer and set its Rotary 1 Target on Volume.
Run the audio cables from each rack device (Mix or Audio) that you want grouped into one of the Pulverizers and back into the device.

Now the Rotary 1 knob on the Combinator is a group fader, and it doesn't affect any of the settings on the rack devices or the SSL channels.

I mapped the Combinator Rotary 1 knob to one of the faders on a midi keyboard and it becomes an automatable group fader.

Huh. Wow. Never thought of doing that. It's not clean, but it sounds like it works.

jfrichards 2012-11-24 01:35

Oh it definitely works:

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...aderinrack.jpg

If Ochen K or the Props made a little $5 volume control rack box, you wouldn't even need the Pulveriser. Hint, hint.

And if the little brushed aluminum volume box showed the name of the track device it was coming from, you'd instantly see what was in your group.

selig 2012-11-24 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrichards (Post 1181319)
How about a rack device that lets you run 32 rack channels through it, but does not merge them, it simply allows parallel control over the channels going through it? This would be for group fading mainly, but could allow group effects also, adding any chosen effect to each channel separately, without doing anything to the settings in the original devices or in the SSL mixer channels.

Cool idea! This is how my ReHEAT concept works. I would only suggest that the Pulveriser isn't the best choice for this job. First of all, if you're using 100% dry you don't have to worry about turning the other stuff off. But the problem is that it's adding 9 dB of gain in that configuration, and that's probably not what you want. And it's difficult to know how to reduce it's level by 9 dB since it's volume know isn't labeled in dB.

I'd use an MClass Compressor because it as "dB" markings, it defaults to 'unity gain', and I also wonder if it's less CPU intensive because it's a 'native' device and fairly simple (it's just a compressor). When using the MComp you can set Ratio to 1:1 or the Threshold all the way up, to ensure there's no compression happening. :-)

rogerlevy 2012-11-24 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by selig (Post 1184245)
Cool idea! This is how my ReHEAT concept works. I would only suggest that the Pulveriser isn't the best choice for this job. First of all, if you're using 100% dry you don't have to worry about turning the other stuff off. But the problem is that it's adding 9 dB of gain in that configuration, and that's probably not what you want. And it's difficult to know how to reduce it's level by 9 dB since it's volume know isn't labeled in dB.

I'd use an MClass Compressor because it as "dB" markings, it defaults to 'unity gain', and I also wonder if it's less CPU intensive because it's a 'native' device and fairly simple (it's just a compressor). When using the MComp you can set Ratio to 1:1 or the Threshold all the way up, to ensure there's no compression happening. :-)

Heh, we've got that Morfin XF RE now, that's probably the best thing to use, in Linear mode. With that at least you can take volume down to 0%, pretty sure MComp can't.

jfrichards 2012-11-24 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerlevy (Post 1184248)
Heh, we've got that Morfin XF RE now, that's probably the best thing to use, in Linear mode. With that at least you can take volume down to 0%, pretty sure MComp can't.

Yep, that's why I made it with the Pulveriser, the MComp only does -12dB. It actually worked really well with the RE-2A, using the gain with the compression left on about 30. It has a nice sound. I was hoping Props or OchenK would make a simple volume control box.

My ideal box would be one with the name of the source track on the left, a volume knob in the middle, and a Sparkle knob on the right (a 0 to +5 dB 5KHz to 6KHz EQ boost that could be controlled by the Combinator Rotary 2).

But for now, for very simple group fading, this Combinator setup works OK. You can label the Pulveriser with whatever the source track is. Then you can see all the group components when you minimize the Pulverisers.

jfrichards 2012-11-24 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by selig (Post 1184245)
it's adding 9 dB of gain in that configuration, and that's probably not what you want. And it's difficult to know how to reduce it's level by 9 dB since it's volume knob isn't labeled in dB.

I found that with the Combinator Rotary 1 set on 70, that set the Pulveriser volume on 55 and that seems to be the same as bypassing the whole thing. Somebody once said that 66 was the magic number for such things, so maybe this is one of those cases.

jfrichards 2012-11-24 17:12

This is how to do a drum group with 7 mics.

I learned that you can set the Target volume range in the Combinator programmer to 52% for each Pulveriser and set the Rotary 1 knob to max (127), and you then have a 0 dB to -56 dB group fader with no gain.

This example shows a 2-bar group fade-in. It's so cool to watch all the Volume knobs in the Pulverisers go from 0 to 52. If anybody wants this Reason file with the Combinator patch and the Pulveriser patch, I could email them to you. Send your email in a Private Message.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...Groupsetup.jpg


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