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-   -   C'mawn Props and/or RE developers ...GO MODULAR (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=173025)

bozotoo 2012-12-19 21:11

C'mawn Props and/or RE developers ...GO MODULAR
 
(Bouncing off a previous thread: https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...hlight=modular)

I think this REALLY deserves some serious consideration. There are lots of ideas here for refining the various instruments and components in Reason. Many are good even great ideas ...but c'mawn guys, those are ALL fine tuning. Modular is the next logical GIANT leap for Reason.

The core technologies already exist and are already in use. Capturing the existing elements from other synthesizers (VCOs, LFOs, EGs, VCAs, VCFs, Delay, Mixers, Ring Mods, Waveshapers, Sequencers, etc.) would not be a major challenge. Adding to them with some logic modules (pulse counters, step dividers, etc.) and some creative audio processors and controllers would not be much more difficult.

In particular, I think that Propellerhead should AVOID the Moog type of modular synthesis. The modules are just too basic and limited and the exact same functionality (the typical VCO-VCF-VCA voice) is already overly-redundant in the existing synthesizers (Thor, Subtractor and literally ALL of the RE synthesizers.) Limiting such a giant leap opportunity to just another re-arrangement of what we already have in several instruments would be a waste.

Propellerhead should go beyond the basics and develop a modular system that is closer to the Buchla or Serge designs. Get CREATIVE! Look at the TREMENDOUS variety of fascinating modules available in the Eurorack world. Complex MIDI processors, Wavetable oscilators, pattern generators, VC, multi-stage envelope generators, complex waveform oscilators, multi-spectral filters and all kinds of freaky analog processors abound in that world.

Maybe the Props could open up a kind of Rack Extension for individual modules thus throwing open the doors to all kinds of fascinating stuff for us and new markets for them and RE developers.

JUST DO IT!!

-BH

.

selig 2012-12-19 21:39

I've got a few friends who develop modules for that world, and there are plenty of modules out there that do some amazing things. I'd also still want the Moog stuff, since that's the modular system I grew up on!

But I have one question - is the current environment developed enough for this to work to your satisfaction? That means a totally mono system, built inside of a Combinator, with all the limitations that implies?

Or do you feel there needs to be a new system in place (maybe a new Combinator, maybe poly CV or MIDI, maybe poly voice exchange)? :-)

cyclic604b33 2012-12-20 07:30

bundled rack extensions with real hardware usb interfaces that match
 
imagine if you bought a $100 rack extension and the seller shipped you something that you could bolt into a real rack , lightweight and foldable ...

something that looked exactly like the rack extension on screen

when you turn the knob or push the button on the rack face plate the onscreen mirred the same ....

with so many cheap midi interfaces out there this seems so obvious ...

bozotoo 2012-12-20 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by selig (Post 1202046)
I've got a few friends who develop modules for that world, and there are plenty of modules out there that do some amazing things. I'd also still want the Moog stuff, since that's the modular system I grew up on!

Yeah ...but they can only do so much. I don't think the Props could develop more than one modular for Reason and there is virtually nothing you can do with a Moog-style instrument that you cannot already do easily with a couple of Thors and a Combinator. Also there is already a Moog-style modular software synthesizer on the market - Moog V.

Quote:

But I have one question - is the current environment developed enough for this to work to your satisfaction? That means a totally mono system, built inside of a Combinator, with all the limitations that implies?
I don't know all that is "under the hood" in Reason, but it seems to me that all of the core technologies are in place and operating now. Aside from developing some new modules, all of the basic stuff is already up and running. It would be mostly a matter of simply re-arranging the graphic interface. Take the oscillators, filters, sequencer, LFOs, EGs, etc. from the Thor, for example, and simply make their connections available independent of the Thor graphic interface. And give the user the ability to add or remove the particular modules he wants to use. Open up the patch points so that everything becomes available for Voltage Control. Make sure the attenuation for CVs is on the input side of the connection. Then come up with some new modules to rout the CVs and we would have one awe-inspiring modular!

Quote:

Or do you feel there needs to be a new system in place (maybe a new Combinator, maybe poly CV or MIDI, maybe poly voice exchange)? :-)
Yes that would be great. But I don't think it would take a new system. This stuff is already all operational within Reason now. That's why I think it would be the best thing for them to do. It would be a giant leap forward for Reason leveraging systems that are ALREADY up and running. It would be a relatively small development effort that would boot Reason -already the best thing since air- way beyond the stratosphere!

ta

-BH

.

bozotoo 2012-12-20 11:18

I know exactly what you mean.

How about building a hardware modular system, which is really nothing more than an interface to a software modular synth. The software synth would have 100% of all functionality already built in. But when you buy a module it is really just an interface with a code to unlock that module's functionality within the software.

Korg sort of hit on this a little bit with the MS-20 Legacy (now discontinued). My MS-20 Legacy hardware is just an interface to the software. Insert a patch-cord and the connection appears on-screen. The only limitation here is that both the hardware and the software were limited to one MS-20. If someone could duplicate that idea but make it expandable with multiple modules both in software and with a modular interface on the hardware side ....oh my googly-woogly that would be God's own synthesizer!

-BH

.

omshanti20 2012-12-20 11:28

******************

selig 2012-12-20 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by bozotoo (Post 1202418)
Yeah ...but they can only do so much. I don't think the Props could develop more than one modular for Reason and there is virtually nothing you can do with a Moog-style instrument that you cannot already do easily with a couple of Thors and a Combinator. Also there is already a Moog-style modular software synthesizer on the market - Moog V.



I don't know all that is "under the hood" in Reason, but it seems to me that all of the core technologies are in place and operating now. Aside from developing some new modules, all of the basic stuff is already up and running. It would be mostly a matter of simply re-arranging the graphic interface. Take the oscillators, filters, sequencer, LFOs, EGs, etc. from the Thor, for example, and simply make their connections available independent of the Thor graphic interface. And give the user the ability to add or remove the particular modules he wants to use. Open up the patch points so that everything becomes available for Voltage Control. Make sure the attenuation for CVs is on the input side of the connection. Then come up with some new modules to rout the CVs and we would have one awe-inspiring modular!



Yes that would be great. But I don't think it would take a new system. This stuff is already all operational within Reason now. That's why I think it would be the best thing for them to do. It would be a giant leap forward for Reason leveraging systems that are ALREADY up and running. It would be a relatively small development effort that would boot Reason -already the best thing since air- way beyond the stratosphere!

ta

-BH

.

I agree with much of what you're saying, and have recently designed MANY modules myself in case this ever happens.

BTW, there are still Moog modules that aren't available in Reason, from the step sequencer to the filter bank, and there are features not available in Reason devices like having all the waveforms available at once on oscillators/lfos, and having all filter modes available at once on filters. I would like to have ALL types of modules myself, not just the esoteric ones. And I have ideas for some VERY esoteric modules!

But I'm a HUGE fan of the idea, to be certain. I'm just wondering how much support there would be for a mono system, even though it's a like a 'real' modular. :-)

jlgrimes 2012-12-20 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclic604b33 (Post 1202325)
imagine if you bought a $100 rack extension and the seller shipped you something that you could bolt into a real rack , lightweight and foldable ...

something that looked exactly like the rack extension on screen

when you turn the knob or push the button on the rack face plate the onscreen mirred the same ....

with so many cheap midi interfaces out there this seems so obvious ...

You are assuming that most developers know how to design hardware as well. I would imagine most don't. This most likely would have to be a big company like NI or something.

Also if a $100 rack extension came with a controller, then it most likely still wouldn't cost $100 anymore. Think maybe at least $200 to even $1000.

Also as much as people love more hardware, not everybody has the space for these extra gadgets so many would opt out and just want the software instead.


Closest thing thought I could think of though was something like Touch OSC does with an Ipad. They could send a Touch OSC template for it which would mirror the device. That would seem more practical.

SynthBear 2012-12-20 23:00

Could you imagine a Touch OSC template on the iPad for Thor? Awesome.

cyclic604b33 2012-12-20 23:55

there are numerous full midi controllers generic with keyboards , much bigger with more complicated designs than what is essentially a face place with a few knobs and sliders and buttons for less than $100 , loads of the rack extensions are less than $30

a delay unit or a filter would be nice to tweak live and reliably not having to custom assign the controller on the spot of a dime you can reach over and confidently effect the software .. it seems like this is too , way too obviously needed.


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