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-   -   Bread & Butter Sounds (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=174158)

uniformedservices69 2013-01-09 04:26

Bread & Butter Sounds
 
It's really ironic to me,that a guitar player friend of mine turned me onto reason and yet,Reason always seemed to have been catering to the DJ/rapper/house crowd(considering the vast ocean of loop/beat/techno programs/software available)...versus the modest bread & butter sounds here and there.
I'm fine with this(but to a point),as I would like to see Propellerhead cater to all of the genres equally.
As far as pianos,drums & the odd e.guitar/acoustic stuff goes..well...between Reason's Refills and what e-soundz and Big Fish Audio has available...these areas are fairly covered well.
As for orchestral strings/brass...Propellerhead really falls short(in terms of comprehensive and authentic sounding VST's).
Not too long ago,I bought Sonic Reality's Gold Bundle library,but the bulk of this software is no better than the existing "factory" sounds.
It was still a good buy...but I want VST's that match the quality of my NI Komplete 6 orchestral sounds.
The main issue at hand,is that I am trying to build up a complete & comprehensive Reason 6 library(so as to not be dependent on NI)...which is on my other PC.
The installation of my NI software in my Presonus S1 DAW was a certifiable nightmare & what was worse,is that NI's customer support is the absolute worst in the industry & I will never buy another NI product....not ever.

That being said,I think it is imperative that Propellerhead should stop bombarding Reason users with an unnecessary phalanx of rack effects and begin adding some more usable sample-based sounds,to effectively compete with Native Instruments.

With regard to Propellerhead offering up some new sounds in general...well..programs such as the Korg Polysix and the PX7 is a decent start(although I am not in a rush to buy them as of yet)...as I am not sure they're necessary,considering how versatile Reason's existing synth engines are.
I'm really excited about the new Neo Soul Keys(especially for the price)...but what about the strings deficit?
The only authentic sounding strings that I'm aware of(apart from the f**king urban looped bulls**t),is Big Fish Audio's London Solo Strings...which is phenomenal sounding,but the program only has viola,cello and double-bass sounds.

Based on the horrible reviews of Reason's Refill Strings(as it were),I'm glad I never wasted my money on it....but what about Propellerhead replacing this now defunked program,with a serious upgrade?
In fact,what Propellerhead should do,is come out with a comprehensive orchestral upgrade that covers the entire gamut(strings,brass,choir and such).
I'd be happy if Big Fish Audio filled the void(if they could manage it at a reasonable cost)...because their Voxos: Epic Virtual Choir software for Kontakt 4 is $800.oo!!?

DrummahBoy 2013-01-09 08:47

Stick around, maybe Props will put out Radical Stringz. :D

JensenTNI 2013-01-09 12:42

This is absolutely a valid point. The string etc. samples in the orchestral soundbank are pretty OK, but I often notice, that there are some undesired frequencies in the higher registers present in the samples and cutting these out just seems to make the samples sound worse... Reason needs betters strings and at least some basic choirs, whatever little is on offer here currently is a joke!

As for the radical strings suggestion, this would only cater for one area, that of strings. But what about brass and choirs? Naa, a proper all around sample library would be very welcome!

PS: ReTron is pretty cool, its a welcome alternative, however the samples contained are quite restricted. It needs more sounds!

elwoodblues1969 2013-01-09 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JensenTNI (Post 1215190)
This is absolutely a valid point. The string etc. samples in the orchestral soundbank are pretty OK, but I often notice, that there are some undesired frequencies in the higher registers present in the samples and cutting these out just seems to make the samples sound worse... Reason needs betters strings and at least some basic choirs, whatever little is on offer here currently is a joke!

As for the radical strings suggestion, this would only cater for one area, that of strings. But what about brass and choirs? Naa, a proper all around sample library would be very welcome!

PS: ReTron is pretty cool, its a welcome alternative, however the samples contained are quite restricted. It needs more sounds!

Jensen,

I'm fairly certain that DrummahBoy was being sarcastic when he mentioned adding a "Radical Strings" module.
On a serious note though,adding an effects module,obviously does not fully compensate for the lack of sample quality.
On a long enough timeline,I think Propellerhead will get around to adding an orchestral upgrade...I mean to say,that since the strings software was discontinued(due to it being piss poor) and that the piano & bass refills are still available,it's an indication to me,that an upgrade is due to come out...eventually.

JensenTNI 2013-01-09 19:15

Yep, got the drift but actually I'm nearly certain a potential next Radical something will be either a Strings or a Guitar thing :)

JoshuaPhilgarlic 2013-01-09 20:58

Why are you writing in bold characters??? We're not blind!

Back to topic: it's fine to have the Orkester Sound Bank in Reason for free, but if you need more you should consider providers who are specialised in this kind of stuff, e.g. the Miroslav ReFill! Did you ever think about how expensive it is to record an orchestra? I can't emagine the price Props whould charge us for Reason if professional orchestra samples would be included!

jkheal 2013-01-09 21:12

I'm not a "professional" musician. I'm not even an amateur musician, but I think I have a vague idea about what goes into creating a sample library. I think the reason there are not great sounding orchestral sample libraries out the ying-yang is that it is a vast (and presumably, expensive) undertaking. Good grief, you need to hire and pay a ton of musicians!

Not to belittle the effort of making, say, a piano sample library, but it seems like just about anyone could actually make one if he or she had access to a decent instrument and the recording space and equipment. You don't actually have to be Alfred Brendel to methodically plink each key at different velocities. But how many people do you know who can get a decent tone out of a contrabassoon?

A vast undertaking, I tell you.

elwoodblues1969 2013-01-10 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshuaPhilgarlic (Post 1215466)
Why are you writing in bold characters??? We're not blind!

Back to topic: it's fine to have the Orkester Sound Bank in Reason for free, but if you need more you should consider providers who are specialised in this kind of stuff, e.g. the Miroslav ReFill! Did you ever think about how expensive it is to record an orchestra? I can't emagine the price Props whould charge us for Reason if professional orchestra samples would be included!

Why am I writing in bold characters?Is this really a serious issue for you?
I like bold characters,because small text against a white backround is a strain on my eyes.
To put a finer point on it,when I am reading multiple posts,my replies in larger text,helps offset the strain a bit.
Since you take such umbrage with my text,perhaps you should cease reading my posts.

I listened intently,to the Miroslav software & it sounds no different than the Sonic Reality software that I have.
Notice how Miroslav doesn't demo the instruments individually?That's because it's their attempt to cover up how thin their VST's are.
Besides,it stands to reason,that an orchestral bundle only costing $179 would sound like sh*t.

Authentic sounding orchestral VST's aren't all that expense...such as...for example,the Native Instruments orchestral programs range from $79 to $339 a piece,which is peanuts...considering how impeccably authentic they sound.
By the way,the choir program I mentioned that is for Kontakt which is $800..well...it's a very comprehensive program that is 35GB in size...check it out & you'll see what I mean; http://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.h...512260::512243


I of course,am not expecting Propellerhead to make anything that huge..however though,Miroslav's entire orchestral bundle is only 9GB...whereas-for example,NI's Session Strings is 48GB.
The only thing Miroslav specializes in,is making mediocre software for those budget minded individuals...there's nothing special about that.

I NEVER said anything to the effect that Propellerhead should include a massive orchestral upgrade with a purchase of a Reason DAW,so I don't know why you brought that up,as it's completely irrelevant to this discussion...as it goes without saying,that significant upgrades should ALWAYS be optional.
If Propellerhead decided to create an orchestral bundle for say,$400 or $500 bucks,that would be a bargain(more than you would ever consider paying probably)....but some of us don't want our songs sounding like they were done on a Casio keyboard.
Whether it is Propellerhead or Big Fish Audio,that makes an orchestral bundle...it doesn't matter,so long as SOMEBODY fills the void.

It certainly shouldn't make a difference to you,whatever the cost is for software...because no one is forcing you to buy it and you don't seem interested in orchestral upgrades beyond what is already available anyway.

People like you are so clueless & irritating...the way you incessantly bitch and moan about the cost of software,despite the fact that it all costs only a fraction of what you would pay for a hardware workstation(that only has a fraction of the capabilities & quality of PC workstations).
You clearly were not around before PC workstations came into play...at a time where a keyboard workstation was $3,000 and all you had to work with,is a sound pallet consisting of 30MB and a screen the size of a calculator.

Check out Big Fish Audio's London Solo Strings for Reason for only 99.95 AND THEN TELL ME how great Miroslav is & how astronomical recording orchestras are.

http://www.bigfishaudio.com/detail.h...G1615;E46::845

This is only the tip of the iceberg,in terms of having a complete orchestra obviously...but 1.5GB devoted to just strings,makes a world of difference and it's a great start,in building up an orchestral library...bit by bit.
If Big Fish Audio makes more orchestral type stuff in the future-such as brass,I won't care whether or not Propellerhead makes orchestral upgrades in the future.
Especially now,with the rack extension expansion,some third party out there is bound to come out with an orchestral package...it's just a matter of time...hopefully sooner,rather than later.

elwoodblues1969 2013-01-10 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkheal (Post 1215475)
I'm not a "professional" musician. I'm not even an amateur musician, but I think I have a vague idea about what goes into creating a sample library. I think the reason there are not great sounding orchestral sample libraries out the ying-yang is that it is a vast (and presumably, expensive) undertaking. Good grief, you need to hire and pay a ton of musicians!

Not to belittle the effort of making, say, a piano sample library, but it seems like just about anyone could actually make one if he or she had access to a decent instrument and the recording space and equipment. You don't actually have to be Alfred Brendel to methodically plink each key at different velocities. But how many people do you know who can get a decent tone out of a contrabassoon?

A vast undertaking, I tell you.

Just a suggestion...but perhaps instead of you being presumptuous & speculative,you should do some online research & take a look at the prices of orchestral software(only takes but a few minutes of your time).

If you choose to do so,you will gain some insight and have a common frame of reference into this discussion(of which does not necessitate you being a seasoned musician).

QVprod 2013-01-10 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniformedservices69 (Post 1215052)
That being said,I think it is imperative that Propellerhead should stop bombarding Reason users with an unnecessary phalanx of rack effects and begin adding some more usable sample-based sounds,to effectively compete with Native Instruments.


I wouldn't necessarilly call them unnecessary, besides the majority of the rack fx in the shop aren't made by Propellerhead. As for competing with NI, why? Reason is a daw, NI stuff can only be used in addition to a daw, besides there are third parties for that (The kontakt format is huge because of third parties). Not to say that I wouldn't appreciate a good string refill from them, but I'd rather them focus on the core of the program; maybe adding disk streaming to nnxt or an new sampler with the same scripting abilities as kontakt so we could have access to the bigger more intricate libraries.
Quote:

Originally Posted by uniformedservices69 (Post 1215052)
I'm really excited about the new Neo Soul Keys(especially for the price)...


I'm assuming you mean Radical Keys? Grated I love NSK as well but as far as I know Jamal's not making a Re of the new 3X version anytime soon (if at all).
Quote:

Originally Posted by uniformedservices69 (Post 1215052)
The only authentic sounding strings that I'm aware of(apart from the f**king urban looped bulls**t),is Big Fish Audio's London Solo Strings...which is phenomenal sounding,but the program only has viola,cello and double-bass sounds.


It also has violin sounds. Not sure what other sounds you would expect from a string refill though. Violin, Viola, Cello, and Double-bass pretty much cover all the orchestral string instruments (harp?). Or were you referring to not having orchestral horns or choirs? There is the vinatage horns refill from big fish audio but then gain its a bit more geared toward soul/jazz/funk.


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