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-   -   How do I improve my bottom end? (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=177820)

Ricey74 2013-03-12 20:41

How do I improve my bottom end?
 
Hi,

Every track I produce I always get the same feedback, nice track plenty of energy, bottom end could do with some work!

I have to totally agree with this feedback, musically of course although my wife might agree non musically :)

So any one with advice out there on how to fatten and punch my kicks and oomph the bass like in so many produced dance tracks, I have read up on eq'ing and that seems like an art I need to get familiar with, so where do I start? Any decent tutorials out there? I use compression, but that just seems to increase my volume and cause clipping rather than fatten up my kicks? Does the kick sample matter? Does anyone have a recommended kick sample pack?

Any help would be much appreciated as this is the one part of my music productions that seems to let me down.

Thanks

Chris.

vanKloot 2013-03-12 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricey74 (Post 1257346)
How do I improve my bottom end?

Climb lots of stairs?

(Oh come on now... everyone was so busy gushing/griping about Reason7 that it left me a prime opportunity to hit this one. ;))

But seriously... as counter-intuitive as it sounds at first, one thing that can help a great deal is actually to REMOVE some of the low-end from the sounds. Especially the super duper low stuff like below 30hz, maybe even below 50hz. What can happen is a lot of sounds produce energy down there but we don't really hear it consciously, so we think it doesn't matter. But it all adds up and turns into "mud". So rolling off the super lows can make a dramatic difference in the mix, though you might not notice it so much on an individual track.

Also I got some good advice in this form about rolling off some frequencies in like the 250 to 500hz range in one of my recent mixes, and it made a huge difference in clarity and punch but didn't lose any of the "oomph". If you know what I mean.

EQing/mixing is definitely an art and it's something that takes years of critical listening to become natural and instinctive. Can't say I'm really there despite being a musician almost my entire life (nearly 40 years) but I didn't really focus on it as a priority. It's important stuff to develop in yourself!

JpPropellaed 2013-03-13 00:11

Vengeance Sample packs , for Cluby Stuff ' Huge Sounds , Any Pack ! Bottom end is a funny old beast & never easy on any track , but there is always a SWEET-Spot , its finding it that matters ! You are probably hearing whats know as Phazing in your bottom-end , always makes the track sound muddy & steals the Punch of both Kick & Bass. Carefull eQing & Layering is the Key ;) ,,,, Here's a HUGE TIP ,,,, TRY TO GET EVERY INSTRUMENT IN YOUR TRACK SOUNDING LIKE ITS ALMOST EQ'D JUST BY GETTING THE LEVELS [RIGHT] THEN ADD SOME EQ ' FOR SOME MORE MAGIC !

Ricey74 2013-03-13 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanKloot (Post 1257790)
Climb lots of stairs?

(Oh come on now... everyone was so busy gushing/griping about Reason7 that it left me a prime opportunity to hit this one. ;))

But seriously... as counter-intuitive as it sounds at first, one thing that can help a great deal is actually to REMOVE some of the low-end from the sounds. Especially the super duper low stuff like below 30hz, maybe even below 50hz. What can happen is a lot of sounds produce energy down there but we don't really hear it consciously, so we think it doesn't matter. But it all adds up and turns into "mud". So rolling off the super lows can make a dramatic difference in the mix, though you might not notice it so much on an individual track.

Also I got some good advice in this form about rolling off some frequencies in like the 250 to 500hz range in one of my recent mixes, and it made a huge difference in clarity and punch but didn't lose any of the "oomph". If you know what I mean.

EQing/mixing is definitely an art and it's something that takes years of critical listening to become natural and instinctive. Can't say I'm really there despite being a musician almost my entire life (nearly 40 years) but I didn't really focus on it as a priority. It's important stuff to develop in yourself!

Thanks very much taking the time to reply. This is real useful stuff. I'm giving this a try as we speak, ill post my results! Huge thanks.

Ricey74 2013-03-13 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by JpPropellaed (Post 1257871)
Vengeance Sample packs , for Cluby Stuff ' Huge Sounds , Any Pack ! Bottom end is a funny old beast & never easy on any track , but there is always a SWEET-Spot , its finding it that matters ! You are probably hearing whats know as Phazing in your bottom-end , always makes the track sound muddy & steals the Punch of both Kick & Bass. Carefull eQing & Layering is the Key ;) ,,,, Here's a HUGE TIP ,,,, TRY TO GET EVERY INSTRUMENT IN YOUR TRACK SOUNDING LIKE ITS ALMOST EQ'D JUST BY GETTING THE LEVELS [RIGHT] THEN ADD SOME EQ ' FOR SOME MORE MAGIC !

That sweet spot takes some getting to. Ill try out some of the Vengeance sample packs. I have done what I can with the levels as you suggested, but as soon as I start to muck with the EQ the sound goes all over the place. I suppose its because i don't really understand what each EQ knob does! I suppose its patience, practice and plenty of googleing! Thanks for your reply.

vanKloot 2013-03-13 00:37

Oh another thing... it's tempting to crank the EQ knobs until you absolutely hear a radical result. But that almost always means you went way too far. I found that by rolling off just maybe 3db or 4db on my "problem areas" it made a really big difference in the final mix, when all combined.

releaux 2013-03-13 01:03

EQ and selective, multiband compression are your friends here. And you should always try to cut EQ, not add it. There are, of course, always exceptions to that rule, but cutting things out will really help your mix's clarity. Mud is the enemy!

Carve out spaces for all of your sounds so they're not running into each other.

vanKloot 2013-03-13 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by releaux (Post 1257977)
And you should always try to cut EQ, not add it. There are, of course, always exceptions to that rule, but cutting things out will really help your mix's clarity. Mud is the enemy!

Carve out spaces for all of your sounds so they're not running into each other.

YES YES YES YES! This is SOOOOOO true. Do everything you can to not add a single bit of EQ. Remove only. You'll be amazed at how it will make you re-approach your mixing.

mmichalski 2013-03-13 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanKloot (Post 1257790)
But seriously... as counter-intuitive as it sounds at first, one thing that can help a great deal is actually to REMOVE some of the low-end from the sounds. Especially the super duper low stuff like below 30hz, maybe even below 50hz. What can happen is a lot of sounds produce energy down there but we don't really hear it consciously, so we think it doesn't matter. But it all adds up and turns into "mud". So rolling off the super lows can make a dramatic difference in the mix, though you might not notice it so much on an individual track.

Also I got some good advice in this form about rolling off some frequencies in like the 250 to 500hz range in one of my recent mixes, and it made a huge difference in clarity and punch but didn't lose any of the "oomph". If you know what I mean.

This is pretty much the same thing I just posted in your track thread, only with even more detail here. Good stuff.

One thing not mentioned is that it would really be effective if you handled your bass and kick separately. Generally, I find that the bass carries lower and that I need to high pass the kick at a higher frequency than the bass. While this isn't always true (like when you have a sub on the kick itself), it generally works. It leaves more room for the bass and actually will cause your kick to speak better as well.

Best wishes!

vanKloot 2013-03-13 03:07

Oooh yes, another excellent point. Bass (the instrument) and bass (the drum) don't naturally live in the same frequency spectrums. They do overlap some typically, but yeah... treat them as very different entities. Great point.


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