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TonyJarrah 2003-09-19 14:43

Rewire in Stereo
Hi guys,
I just downloaded a trial version of Project 5 for the hell of it last night and I realized something. When you rewire the devices from Project 5 into Sonar, each device shows up as a stereo rewire channel in Sonar. I always thought that the mono rewire from Reason to Sonar was Sonar's fault, but I realized since Project 5 shows up in stereo, that it's not Sonar's fault, but rather the way Reason sends the rewire message. Maybe it's something in the hardware interface? I wonder if anybody from props can comment on this. I also find it wierd that channels 1 & 2 can show up as stereo, but channels 3 & 4 can't. It seams that Project 5 did Rewire better than the inventors of Rewire themselves. If indeed this is a flaw on Props' end (and I did say IF), then I hope that Reason 3 will fix this problem. Just to further explore this topic, can anyone using a host other than Sonar describe if Reason shows up in their host app the same way it shows up in Sonar? I'd really like to find out what's going on here. If it ends up being Sonar's fault afterall, then I'll change hosts, but I can't see that being the case since Project 5 shows up perfectly in Sonar.

jakpot 2003-09-19 16:20

Re: Rewire in Stereo
It is Cakewalk's fault. The host (i.e. Sonar, Cubase, etc...) configures all of that.

Cakewalk did that on purpose to encourage people to buy Project5 over Reason. I think it is kind of sketchy (see my posts near the bottom of the page). Sonar could be stereo with Reason, but Cakewalk is chosing not to do it.


TonyJarrah 2003-09-19 16:41

Re: Rewire in Stereo
Thanks Jeff. So how about the Cubase/Logic users. Do they see the Reason devices via rewire in stereo or mono. If it is Sonar's fault, then how come project 5 shows up in stereo since it is the same Sonar that sees Reason in mono. If Cubase sees Reason devices in stereo then I'll sell my Sonar and move to Cubase. Either that or Keep Sonar and sell Reason and get Project 5. However I do prefer the first choice. I need to find out what's going on here so that I can make a choice. If this is indeed Cakewalk's intention, then shame on them for being unprofessional. They should realize that they can loose all the Reason users to Cubase. But that's their problem. Let's figure this out if we can. Hopefully Sonar 3 will fix this problem, however if it is intentional, then I doubt that it will be fixed.

jakpot 2003-09-19 16:51

Re: Rewire in Stereo
The word on the Sonar message board is that Cakewalk has no intention of fixing it anytime soon.

There are work arounds however. I just make two tracks in Sonar, one for left, one for right. Pan them each respectively, and group the volume faders so that when you move one, the other moves too.

That works great for me, but I also don't really use plug-ins at all. If you want them on the same track for effects reasons, then you can always use the auxilliary busses for effects, and it will put that one effect on both tracks equally.

I don't know about the other hosts, I think some of them have similar issues, but there may be some that work better.


TonyJarrah 2003-09-19 18:58

Re: Rewire in Stereo
Thanks Jeff! Any other host users please reply with your experiences.

Sagoa 2003-09-19 19:04

Re: Rewire in Stereo

I Rewire to Cubase SX and have noticed when you activate rewire channels one and two (L & R), it changes them to two L's (two lefts?) on the right side. The audio still would appear to be in stereo though, so i dunno....

:Thanks Jeff! Any other host users please reply with your experiences.

blank 2003-09-19 19:30

Re: Rewire in Stereo - here's why
To make a long story short, I think it comes down to either misinterpretation on the behalf of the third party, or unclear communication on Props' part. I haven't seen the exact wording of the ReWire documentation so I don't know which.

The slave application (Reason or other) tells the host how many channels it has, what their names are and whether they're mono or stereo. Reason does indeed tell the host that it has 1 stereo + 62 mono and that's why this configuration shows up. The human miscommunication here is that the configuration reported by the slave is a _recommendation_, not a direct 'obey me or die' order. Props thought that any serious ReWire implementation would be made fully configurable, and the basic recommended configuration was a lowest common denominator safeguard, for tree fiddy shareware that has like 2 checkboxes in Prefs and nothing else. Unfortunately it turned out that most implementations, even in flagship products like Nuendo, are brutally basic. I've told Steinberg half a dozen times over the course of a year and a half to add some configurability to their ReWire implementation, and they said they would, but I'm not seeing it.

Since it's become apparent that third party developers tend to leave ReWire the way it is once they've gotten around to implement it, I think Props should pick up the ball and add an option in Reason prefs - it could be as simple as choosing standard config or 32 stereo, or it could be more flexible, but anyway I'd say the ball's in their court now.


Gwydi 2003-09-20 16:33

Re: Rewire in Stereo
Sonar does this on purpose to make P5 appear "better" than Reason.

However, the new version of Sonar (v3) with the dynamic bussing structure will give us a way to overcome this even if they haven't changed the basic implementation, so if you can hang on a few more weeks and then upgrade, it won't be a problem any more :)


TonyJarrah 2003-09-20 20:00

Re: Rewire in Stereo
Can't Props rewrite Reason 3 in a way that allows us to chose the way we want to use rewire and not the way a third party like Cakewalk wants us to? Or better yet, can props just write a downloadable patch for Reason 2.5 that will allow that. I know Props can do it because they invented the technology. If someone important is reading this, then please give us an update patch that would fix this problem.

Gwydi 2003-09-21 04:28

Um, no
It's a function of the HOST, not rewire.

Cakewalk did this deliberately.

As I said - wait for Sonar 3 and it's no longer a problem.


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