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-   -   Bitchin' (https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/showthread.php?t=76730)

mac10 2004-12-07 17:25

Bitchin'
 
One thing I can never understand is how some people find it reasonable to bitch about Reason and/or the Props.. for anything. What is it that makes these people think that the Props are something akin to their personal employees, supposed to cater to their every whim and wish?

If Reason isn't what you need, then don't use it (or.. don't buy it).

The Props are a very very talented and professional group of people, with a rare ability to focus on what they do and to have clear strategies on where they want to take *their* baby. Of course, being a commercial product, this implies considering marked demand and needs - but in a general way. It's not like anyone has a right to *demand* that they deviate from whatever (informed) strategy they are following to customize Reason for them.

If anything, they should be grateful that the product even exists.

teelangsun 2004-12-08 01:15

Re: Bitchin'
 
One thing I can never understand is how some people find it reasonable to bitch about Reason and/or the Props.. for anything. What is it that makes these people think that the Props are something akin to their personal employees, supposed to cater to their every whim and wish?
:
:If Reason isn't what you need, then don't use it (or.. don't buy it).
:
:The Props are a very very talented and professional group of people, with a rare ability to focus on what they do and to have clear strategies on where they want to take *their* baby. Of course, being a commercial product, this implies considering marked demand and needs - but in a general way. It's not like anyone has a right to *demand* that they deviate from whatever (informed) strategy they are following to customize Reason for them.
:
:If anything, they should be grateful that the product even exists.

It's the same logic that makes you and others think you are right to tell other people not to buy somebody else's products. The same logic that makes you think you're doing the Props a favor in doing so. You only serve your own purpose but the Props purpose is more likely about making money than getting people to stop complaining. If a complainer decides to buy Reason, do you think the Props will refuse to sell it? And if a complainer takes your ridiculous advice, do you think the Props would be happy about it?

blank 2004-12-08 05:38

The only package is The Complete Package.
 
: One thing I can never understand is how some people find it reasonable to bitch about Reason and/or the Props.. for anything. What is it that makes these people think that the Props are something akin to their personal employees, supposed to cater to their every whim and wish?

It's not about rampant feelings of entitlement, methinks. It's more that Props are a blow to their sense of normality, something which can make people very aggressive. You can observe this reaction cranked up to 11 in autistic people, they can freak out if one morning the ear on the coffee mug is suddenly pointing to the left, when every morning before it pointed to the right.

It seems to me that people have allowed the Cubase model (MIDI sequencer, audio recording, plugin FX, plugin instruments) to somehow dictate the terms for any application that falls under the jurisdiction of music making.

This model is so deeply etched into their brain stems, that somehwere along the way they entirely lost the ability to even fathom another model. To them, there is only The Complete Package, and what follows logically is that anything which does not comply with the terms, lists under The Incomplete Packages.

Reason is a dead ringer for the latter category. To The Complete Package devotees, Reason is suspiciously, even provokingly resemblant of a Complete Package. It has instruments, it has effects, it even has a sequencer window. It has one asset too many to _not_ qualify as a Complete Package runner-up.
The big shocker is, there's a gaping hole where the audio recording, the MIDI out and the VST plugin sockets should go.

It is futile to even attempt to open their minds to the idea that there might be other models out there. You might as well say you just spotted a UFO. You just can't stand there and say that, for real, and you can't just stand there and say that Reason is a "Synth Workstation".

- Uh-uh, that's no package I've heard of. There's no package like that. There's the Complete Package or no package. That's my truth and I'm sticking to it.

- But it is a Complete Package. A complete Synth Workstation package.

- Impossible, it has no audio!

- But that's not even part of the complete synth workstation package.

- Huh? That's bull, it has... it has effects and stuff.

- Those are part of that package.

- But they're not synths man!

- Synths have effects.

- But it's for MAKING MUSIC! Hello? Is this the twilight zone??

- You can make music with synths.

- BUT EVEN FRIGGIN' MS OUTLOOK HAS AUDIO RECORDING!!

- Is it a synth workstation?

- Hell no, it's an email client.

- Is it a Complete Package?

- Well, I suppose... it's got a calendar, tasks, email, notes and - hey wait a second, where are you going with all this?

- I'm just suggesting that you can't judge the merits of a program's functionality solely on its audio recording capabilities, if its purpose is something else altogether. Maybe the problem isn't that Reason is not what you want it to be, but that you want it to be something it isn't?

- You're freaking me out man, I'm calling 911.

/Fred

2004-12-08 06:39

Re: The only package is The Complete Package.
 
One thing I can never understand is how some people find it reasonable to bitch about Reason and/or the Props.. for anything. What is it that makes these people think that the Props are something akin to their personal employees, supposed to cater to their every whim and wish?
:
:It's not about rampant feelings of entitlement, methinks. It's more that Props are a blow to their sense of normality, something which can make people very aggressive. You can observe this reaction cranked up to 11 in autistic people, they can freak out if one morning the ear on the coffee mug is suddenly pointing to the left, when every morning before it pointed to the right.
:
:It seems to me that people have allowed the Cubase model (MIDI sequencer, audio recording, plugin FX, plugin instruments) to somehow dictate the terms for any application that falls under the jurisdiction of music making.
:
:This model is so deeply etched into their brain stems, that somehwere along the way they entirely lost the ability to even fathom another model. To them, there is only The Complete Package, and what follows logically is that anything which does not comply with the terms, lists under The Incomplete Packages.
:
:Reason is a dead ringer for the latter category. To The Complete Package devotees, Reason is suspiciously, even provokingly resemblant of a Complete Package. It has instruments, it has effects, it even has a sequencer window. It has one asset too many to _not_ qualify as a Complete Package runner-up.
:The big shocker is, there's a gaping hole where the audio recording, the MIDI out and the VST plugin sockets should go.
:
:It is futile to even attempt to open their minds to the idea that there might be other models out there. You might as well say you just spotted a UFO. You just can't stand there and say that, for real, and you can't just stand there and say that Reason is a "Synth Workstation".
:
:- Uh-uh, that's no package I've heard of. There's no package like that. There's the Complete Package or no package. That's my truth and I'm sticking to it.
:
:- But it is a Complete Package. A complete Synth Workstation package.
:
:- Impossible, it has no audio!
:
:- But that's not even part of the complete synth workstation package.
:
:- Huh? That's bull, it has... it has effects and stuff.
:
:- Those are part of that package.
:
:- But they're not synths man!
:
:- Synths have effects.
:
:- But it's for MAKING MUSIC! Hello? Is this the twilight zone??
:
:- You can make music with synths.
:
:- BUT EVEN FRIGGIN' MS OUTLOOK HAS AUDIO RECORDING!!
:
:- Is it a synth workstation?
:
:- Hell no, it's an email client.
:
:- Is it a Complete Package?
:
:- Well, I suppose... it's got a calendar, tasks, email, notes and - hey wait a second, where are you going with all this?
:
:- I'm just suggesting that you can't judge the merits of a program's functionality solely on its audio recording capabilities, if its purpose is something else altogether. Maybe the problem isn't that Reason is not what you want it to be, but that you want it to be something it isn't?
:
:- You're freaking me out man, I'm calling 911.
:
:/Fred

Very well articulated passage there. I enjoy your writing style because it's similar to and almost as powerful as mine. I am a little curious however as to how it is that you seem to have such an inside angle on the product. Are you a Prop? Don't answer if you'd feel incriminated.

mistaken 2004-12-08 06:53

Re: The only package is The Complete Package.
 

:
:Very well articulated passage there. I enjoy your writing style because it's similar to and almost as powerful as mine. I am a little curious however as to how it is that you seem to have such an inside angle on the product. Are you a Prop? Don't answer if you'd feel incriminated.


A tip for you, Flaphead.

Acquire some false nails and paint them red. Then commence masturbating in the usual manner, but holding a mirror at an oblique angle to your penis. Look in the mirror. The image will be subtly defamiliarized and you'll almost believe that you're being tugged off by an actual lady.

I honestly think it'll be more rewarding for you than doing what you're doing at the moment.

Best wishes

Mistaken

2004-12-08 13:54

Re: The only package is The Complete Package.
 

::
::Very well articulated passage there. I enjoy your writing style because it's similar to and almost as powerful as mine. I am a little curious however as to how it is that you seem to have such an inside angle on the product. Are you a Prop? Don't answer if you'd feel incriminated.
:
:
:A tip for you, Flaphead.
:
:Acquire some false nails and paint them red. Then commence masturbating in the usual manner, but holding a mirror at an oblique angle to your penis. Look in the mirror. The image will be subtly defamiliarized and you'll almost believe that you're being tugged off by an actual lady.
:
:I honestly think it'll be more rewarding for you than doing what you're doing at the moment.
:
:Best wishes
:
:Mistaken


Ewwwwwww....I'm concerned about your mind.

moorejollie 2004-12-08 15:05

Re: The only package is The Complete Package.
 
And we are concerned about your LACK of mind, now get to strokin'(Jackass!).
:
:
:Ewwwwwww....I'm concerned about your mind.

Meffy 2004-12-08 18:06

Re: The only package is The Complete Package.
 
Fred, as usual your insight is like X-ray vision.

I use Sonar as my main sequencer, and am learning to use Live. My tendency is to think of software as a way to replace the traditional electronics setup I grew up with in the 1960s and 70s.

Of course, the "hardware substitute" metaphor goes just so far, is just partly right. So I often have to adjust my ideas and attitudes to reflect reality. The alternative would be to expect reality to change to suit my preconceived notions.

Gee, who do you think would win THAT battle of wills? :-D

Yup: it's not incumbent on the world to adjust itself to satisfy my misconceptions. To expect that would be a sure road to disappointment, frustration, and becoming a laughingstock instead of a jokester.

Speaking of laughingstocks...

flaphead, if you really don't know who Fred is (hard for me to believe, but I keep reminding myself never to underestimate the power of ignorance) here's a "verbum sat" for you: a little research before posting could've saved you a great deal of self-humiliation.

Had you taken a bit of time, done your homework, you might understand part of why everyone's having such a wonderful time laughing at (not with) you and your hijinks. You really do bring a precious gift of comedy, however unintended it may be. :-)

Meffy

2004-12-08 18:10

Re: The only package is The Complete Package.
 
Fred, as usual your insight is like X-ray vision.
:
:I use Sonar as my main sequencer, and am learning to use Live. My tendency is to think of software as a way to replace the traditional electronics setup I grew up with in the 1960s and 70s.
:
:Of course, the "hardware substitute" metaphor goes just so far, is just partly right. So I often have to adjust my ideas and attitudes to reflect reality. The alternative would be to expect reality to change to suit my preconceived notions.
:
:Gee, who do you think would win THAT battle of wills? :-D
:
:Yup: it's not incumbent on the world to adjust itself to satisfy my misconceptions. To expect that would be a sure road to disappointment, frustration, and becoming a laughingstock instead of a jokester.
:
:Speaking of laughingstocks...
:
:flaphead, if you really don't know who Fred is (hard for me to believe, but I keep reminding myself never to underestimate the power of ignorance) here's a "verbum sat" for you: a little research before posting could've saved you a great deal of self-humiliation.
:
:Had you taken a bit of time, done your homework, you might understand part of why everyone's having such a wonderful time laughing at (not with) you and your hijinks. You really do bring a precious gift of comedy, however unintended it may be. :-)
:
:Meffy

I haven't a clue who Fred is. Am I supposed to? Why don't you just answer the question instead of delivering your customary paragraph or two of blither-blather.

Meffy 2004-12-08 19:11

Re: flaphead admits he hasn't a clue, and about time he did
 
:I haven't a clue

You've demonstrated this repeatedly. There's no need for you to keep driving the point home. On this one point, we all believe you.

:Why don't you just answer the question

Because there is no question to answer. First: I wasn't replying to you. Hate to break it to you, little one, but you're not a participant in this discussion. Like it or not, you are a noisy kibitzer, a pesky bystander -- no more than that.

Second: read Fred's post again, dear, the one I was replying to... but this time focus on reading for _comprehension_ instead of speed. Such unaccustomed efford will be a hardship for you, I know -- but please do make the effort. (Point to words with your index finger while reading and move your lips if you find that helps. We won't tease you you for this as your peers do, I promise.)

Done reading it? Good. You'll have discovered that the only questions in the post I replied to were rhetorical ones. "Rhetorical." That means they're intended to make a point, not to be taken literally and answered.

I'm sorry, flopsy, but your amusement value is wearing a bit thin. In order to elicit further responses from me, you're going to have to EARN them. That means making intelligent comments, addressing points with sensible discourse, and no longer failing to comprehend the simplest points (or pretending incomprehension for fun, which is even sadder in a way).

Think you can do that? I don't -- I expect more of the same from you. Maybe you can surprise me with a glimmer of awareness, a spark of understanding. Given your record here, I doubt it. But you might try.

Until you begin to make sense, please don't expect any replies to your posts. I might make a response for the benefit of others, or for a laugh. Keep in mind that response and reply are not the same thing. (Buy a dictionary and you'll be able to learn the difference.)

Meffy


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