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  #1  
Old 2012-02-16, 17:40
foxkitchris foxkitchris is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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More "Real" Instrument Refills

I would love to see more high quality multi-sampled refills of acoustic instruments and of things we dont have. Orchestral refills, Guitars, Ethic instruments, etc, etc. Good film scoring stuff. I believe we have enough Synth refills (until we get a new synth) and enough drum refills (unless its something like NI Damage or East West Storm Drum2). The props refills that are multisampled like soul school or the more recent ALt Drums sound great, so why not apply that method to other instruments. Alot of third party developers are not going to make these products as refills so I think this is going to be up to the Prop team to develop it or outsource it. Plugins like these are expensive but they sound amazing. If the Props team charged 200-300 dollars for an awesome refill for Reason i would buy it.
If you havent checked out EastWest i highly recommend it. all of their instrument libraries sound amazing and would love that kind of realism in our Reason rack and workflow.
  #2  
Old 2012-02-16, 18:24
JiggeryPokery's Avatar
JiggeryPokery JiggeryPokery is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lembeck1 View Post
Guitars
Most users are simply not interested: they want synths, they want to be the next Shrillex. It's not through lack of trying. I've got the Guitars Vol.2 pretty much in the bag: another single guitar, over 5GB over samples, but having tested the waters with the considerably more lightweight Stratocaster ReFill, hardly anyone bought it for £30. I'm not saying PerfStrat is as good as what Props might release, given the facilities available to them, but it's 100 times better than any other straight-up guitar ReFill, and I've bought 'em all.

That's why third party makers don't do more of that kind of stuff: it takes months of work, and they just don't sell in the kind of numbers to justify it.

The Reason market just isn't there for this kind of material. Props have tried it with RDK, REB, RPi and ARK, but I get the distinct impression (from the removal of ARK from that lineup), that sales just ain't there to justify them spending the £20-30,000 minimum it would likely cost to produce a multi-sampled guitar ReFill, you'd be looking at £200 per guitar. And believe me, the 5GB I've got here on vol.2 is still really only scratching the surface, and was a solid month of sampling alone. I'm not convinced it's really worth the effort.
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  #3  
Old 2012-02-16, 18:50
labyrus labyrus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 238
I think a lot of it is that the reason market in general is pretty small, and many reason users have other platforms, too. Someone who sells Kontakt sample packs, for example has a bigger user base to sell to than someone who makes refills, so they can price things lower and still make money. The price on any of the good props refills is pretty high, but they have access to the entire user-base in a way that 3rd party makers don't. 3rd party refill makers have to compete with this big market that doesn't have to compete with them.
  #4  
Old 2012-02-18, 14:20
denisjamers denisjamers is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 53
He Matt. Thank you for the refills you have made
Your Strat Refill refill is fantastic. Only people that play real music will by your refill's.
BTW i never heard of ARK
sorry for my bad english

dE.niz
  #5  
Old 2012-02-18, 14:44
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JiggeryPokery JiggeryPokery is offline
 
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Posts: 5,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by denisjamers View Post
He Matt. Thank you for the refills you have made
Your Strat Refill refill is fantastic. Only people that play real music will by your refill's.
BTW i never heard of ARK
sorry for my bad english

dE.niz
Cheers.

ARK was the now legendary Abbey Road Keyboards ReFill.
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  #6  
Old 2012-02-18, 15:32
Mate Mate is offline
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I love the Reason FSB Sax Instruments, but I know that Props could do better, so:

Alto, Baritone & Tenor Saxophones ReFill would be cool!
  #7  
Old 2012-02-25, 17:21
fizbin fizbin is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggeryPokery View Post
Most users are simply not interested: they want synths, they want to be the next Shrillex. It's not through lack of trying. I've got the Guitars Vol.2 pretty much in the bag: another single guitar, over 5GB over samples, but having tested the waters with the considerably more lightweight Stratocaster ReFill, hardly anyone bought it for £30. I'm not saying PerfStrat is as good as what Props might release, given the facilities available to them, but it's 100 times better than any other straight-up guitar ReFill, and I've bought 'em all.
As you know, guitar is incredibly difficult to sample properly and equally difficult to program convincingly.

NN-XT, without keyswitching, really isn't cut out for it IMO. To be fair, I haven't heard yours. I'm a guitar player so not likely to go there. (good luck though)

How about a nice sampled Baldwin Combo Harpsichord? ;-)
  #8  
Old 2012-02-25, 17:35
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JiggeryPokery JiggeryPokery is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
As you know, guitar is incredibly difficult to sample properly and equally difficult to program convincingly.

NN-XT, without keyswitching, really isn't cut out for it IMO. To be fair, I haven't heard yours. I'm a guitar player so not likely to go there. (good luck though)
PerfStrat and the upcoming volume 2 feature quite extensive key-switching, but of course this is Thor-based, and limited to only two switches per Thor, and then limited to only 4 actual switches (using Thor CV in and assuming you want to use the Combi programming knobs - you can have 8 keyswitches if you didn't use those, but that severly limits the users adjustment options).

The next sample player does need native keyswitching, and far more versatile options, esp a proper pre-envelope release mode. And the ability to name outputs, rather than being forced to route through, say, a spider, just to get a usuable label on your mixer.
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  #9  
Old 2012-02-25, 17:59
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KevWestBeats KevWestBeats is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgrimes View Post
Agreed.

And another thing is that I never heard about the Reason Strat refill untill Jiggery Pokery mentioned it.

How will I now to buy something if I don't know it is out there?

I know the Props do a pretty good job of showing all of the 3rd party commercial refills, but sometimes even sorting through them, you have a hard time knowing whats out there.


And yes if you have a high priced refill (over $200), people will want a demo of some of the patches (one of which should be good enough to convince someone to buy it).

The market is out there and hopefully by Props going the dongle route, that might curb some of the piraters from using Reason which might also equate to less Refill piracy.
a lot of truth here too. A lot of refills that I have I got because I heard about them on the PUF and only on the PUF. A lot of these refills are good ideas and if people branched out to more unknown places and start marketing towards more mainstream audiences their sales should improve. I don't believe that most Reason users come to this forum at all.
  #10  
Old 2012-02-16, 18:26
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selig selig is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,515
+1 on this.

I wonder exactly what instruments folks are looking for these days?

I would buy: cinematic drums/percussion stuff, celeste, pump organ, BIG strings (with 'sections' as they would be recorded for film) and maybe an update to Reason Strings (which is more solo instruments), Middle Eastern and Asian wind, string and percussion instruments, hammered dulcimer/cymbolum, Irish instruments (whistles, bodhran, uilleann pipes, celtic harp, etc), r&b/funk/pop brass,

IMO…
All of these need a hyper-sampled version and a simple version. The hyper version allows you to have access all of the original microphones/positions that were used in the recording session, so the instruments can appear in the SSL mixer as they would if you had recorded them yourselves (with a great engineer in a very nice studio!). The simple version has many less samples/options, and only mono or stereo outputs, but represents the instrument in a scaled down 'vintage sampler' version.

I should mention that a convolution reverb with 'samples' of famous scoring stages and concert halls (and more, of course) wouldn't hurt either, as far as producing film styles and having flexibility when producing multiple genres. I can just imagine what it would do for even the existing Orkester samples!

For those who are working more as the artist, like those who just make dance music or write songs only for themselves or their band, their needs are more specific and limited to their 'sound'. But for pro songwriters, or especially film/TV and commercial music composers, having access to a large variety of instruments and processing, and being able to create multiple 'spaces' and 'vibes' is vital to producing professional quality commercial music, IMO. :-)
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