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  #1  
Old 2012-08-01, 10:36
ryszard's Avatar
ryszard ryszard is offline
 
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Question Riddle me this--CV delay

There is a thread in the Suggestion forum requesting a delay line for CV signals. My question is, how would this be useful? I am asking from complete ignorance. If I see a need for it I'll be happy to get behind the suggestion but I haven't been able to figure it out on my own. I asked in that thread several days ago but haven't received a reply.
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  #2  
Old 2012-08-01, 10:43
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I guess it would be just another way to modulate things differently
  #3  
Old 2012-08-01, 11:12
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Smile

The foremost reason is that you can build delays that change tempo without the classic "pitchbend" noise that you get in an audio delay.

Besides this, well there's countless cool things you can get out of it really.

Hope this helps
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  #4  
Old 2012-08-01, 11:23
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EpiGen,

Could you be more specific? I'm really curious. If it's that cool I'd like to use it myself.

I really like your signature line.
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  #5  
Old 2012-08-01, 13:31
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You could use a CV delay in the same sort of fashion of splitting so one is 'raw' and one is 'delayed' (or chain more if you wanted thru Spider CV), then connect CV raw on Subtractor 1 Filter 1 on a Saw, and then with a delayed CV connect to Subtractor 2 Filter 1 on a square so you get a modulated Saw first then Square second. Sort of like sequencing on the Matrix / Thor, but you get duplicates (kind of like how Rob Papen's "BLADE" works I'm guessing). Also mixing an original CV source with a delayed one at a different level could produce some very unique CV modulations, plus they could be replayed and repeated consistently if triggered by MIDI. Like having one fader go up on CV 1 and on it's way down delayed CV 2 on another fader matches the curve to create a fluid sound. Or generally to mess up all sorts

Also might be like multitapping echos, but in CV form. Wonder what would happen if you did do an Audio in to CV out via 2x Thors, have Audio in on Thor delayed when it comes in, and then twist the delay down to 'zipper' the audio in. However... CV at fast rates (say about 50-80 or 100hz) get to the point where you cant hear the modulation but you hear it similar to FM / AM tones instead.... Has to be super slow, and also needs to be BPM dependent if you want specific not lengths. That's another trick thing in itself... think this is where multiple Pulsars may come in effect (by Combining them, single note key mapping and Midi triggering each in turn.. hmm idea pot stirrage ) - however, I've also found that if you legato notes on devices that should only receive 1 note *may* receive a trigger from said extra notes... so becomes less desirable effect. Have tried this with single samples too sliced to perfect 8th note speed so I can pitch bend up 2 octaves to get 32nd notes and down 2 to get 1/2 notes from same samples. Tricky but fun experimenting. This is what led me on to playing with same idea, trying to emulate Massive's performance LFO in a similar way, and Audio has to be a set level (think it was equivalent to 250% Audio 1 in on Thor to CV1 to get close, so 100% + 100% + 50%, three lines in Modmatrix). will ponder more thought on this mate...
  #6  
Old 2012-08-01, 14:05
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I think I'm starting to see it. Modulated modulation and more. In fact, I've already thought of a use for an effects concept I've had for years but couldn't imagine how to implement.

I hope you'll keep thinking out loud.
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  #7  
Old 2012-08-01, 17:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryszard View Post
There is a thread in the Suggestion forum requesting a delay line for CV signals. My question is, how would this be useful? I am asking from complete ignorance. If I see a need for it I'll be happy to get behind the suggestion but I haven't been able to figure it out on my own. I asked in that thread several days ago but haven't received a reply.
Any CV can be delayed in Reason by passing it through a Thor and converting to audio and using Thor's Delay (or external delays), and finally converting back to CV before passing it on. :-)
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  #8  
Old 2012-08-01, 17:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
Any CV can be delayed in Reason by passing it through a Thor and converting to audio and using Thor's Delay (or external delays), and finally converting back to CV before passing it on. :-)
Good to know. I wonder whether whoever posted the suggestion realizes that?
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  #9  
Old 2012-08-01, 17:51
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
Any CV can be delayed in Reason by passing it through a Thor and converting to audio and using Thor's Delay (or external delays), and finally converting back to CV before passing it on. :-)
You do have to turn up the amount in the ModMatrix though *IF* the audio doesn't reach digital zero, and because MIDI works at 0 to 127 steps, and Thor input is 0 to 100, so to get to 127 you add in a second line on ModMatrix, set Audio input 1 to 100 again to CV out 1 but instead of 100 like in slot 1 I found that if you set to 27 to 100 again you have more 'output'. Also using the dials on the back to scale the input can be handy.

Also Thor Audio to CV seems 'skip' some audio frames on small samples (and I mean something like say at 120bpm @ 44100hz = 1/8th would be 45.9375 samples, so say 46samples), if played too fast (say if i had a saw wave set at 46samples, and I went up 2 octaves, that's now 11 samples, and to get the movement that fast is incredibly hard). When I get to this stage though I end up using automation lanes instead to get the desired sound.

If you had 'noise' and used that instead, so Thor works as an audio follower to CV (so volume control in the WAV / noise source could be the mod instead) you could have 'smoother' control, but if you go faster again, then Thor may have trouble keeping up (so I've found). Tried using Scream 4 envelope follower before but didn't work how I hoped

Go past a certain speed and either 'frames' are dropped or skipped, as the dials / controls cannot go that fast using audio as a source. Automation works fine in this sense too.

Been messing with 1/8th samples a while ago when on R4 to try this, had to double up samples etc to get to the required level, and also remember that CV works in bi-polar (unless using R6 now, which Combi allows uni- and bi- switching... handy!!), so had unipolar samples (top of sample window to zero line, nothing below) so I had a unipolar CV via Audio. Tried to sequence and it does work, but at slower than wanted speeds. Malstrom was my next port of call, but found that the MODs on it continue even after the note has been released. Be good if there was an option to have the MODs stop when keypresses were released, opposed to finishing their cycle. Maybe a Key on/key off detection can turn off the MOD on Malstrom to cut it short... now that's something I didnt think of... Keypress on, Malstrom triggered, MOD cycles, Key released, MOD off... job done.. ok will get back to you on this asap... thinking multiple Malstroms as MOD sources, and keyon / keyoff options (hopefully). Let me get constructing when I get in...

Last edited by djfresha; 2012-08-01 at 17:59. Reason: my poor typing skills lol
  #10  
Old 2012-08-01, 19:54
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additionally.... I thave noticed that you will get some latency as you'r efeeding audio in to Thor, it needs to process that into CV and send back out. So you might when you get the sound you want bounce to audio and manually shift it. This is the payoff when you start using devices as workhorses alternatively to how they normally would be used. just to make you guys aware
 

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