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  #1  
Old 2012-08-11, 01:46
illCarl's Avatar
illCarl illCarl is offline
 
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To the Trance guys (and others) in here.. need your help

Hello everyone

Since I live in Zurich and we got the yearly streetparade starting tomorrow, I decided to create a trance track for fun. I had my Trance-phase somewhen around 1992, so I'm not really listening to that genre anymore and I have no clue what's going on (yes I'm an old fart).

Anyhow.. So I started working on it and came up with a chord progression which I really like.. The problem is... I think I've heard the exact same progression in the radio or so, but can't figure what song it is!

I've just uploaded a couple of bars of the lead synth to dropbox, would you be so kind and just quickly listen to it and let me know if this sounds like a known song? I'm pretty convinced I heard this not too long back (must have been some damn Guetta song with the same progression!). If it doesn't exist I'll finish the song, I like it a lot

Thanks!

Here's the link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4688051/SP2012_snippet.mp3
  #2  
Old 2012-08-11, 03:19
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rlubeck rlubeck is offline
 
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Well, ehr, here's the thing, and I'm going to be harsh but real since you claim you became a trancehead in an excellent period of trance tunes, the 90's.
It's the easiest, most basic and overused chord progression ever used in dance music, to the point it's almost sickening.

I refuse to call tracks that use similar progressions like that trance. It's cheesy, poppy, reeks of eurodance and gives the genre a very bad name.
So much so even, that alot of younger people think trance is nothing but tunes with pogressions like that one.

If you want to use this because you "like this alot" as you say, please rethink. You should be able to differentiate actual quality trance music (in whatever subgenre you can think of) from the generic popdance cheesiness some people *think* is trance.

My suggestion, drop it, listen to some good tunes, get inspired and start over, even when you're doing this just for fun.
Here are a few actual quality trance tracks ranging from progressive to vocal to high energy, that DON'T feature chord progressions like the one you've uploaded.

Planisphere - Moonshine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXU5-4xPQZI

Jan Johnston - Flesh (remix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmKWHy4KUp0

Push - Universal Nation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnBeTPpr98g
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Last edited by rlubeck; 2012-08-11 at 03:23.
  #3  
Old 2012-08-11, 03:46
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Jagwah Jagwah is offline
 
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Push - Universal Nation, that's a great tune.
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  #4  
Old 2012-08-11, 08:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlubeck View Post
Well, ehr, here's the thing, and I'm going to be harsh but real since you claim you became a trancehead in an excellent period of trance tunes, the 90's.
It's the easiest, most basic and overused chord progression ever used in dance music, to the point it's almost sickening.

I refuse to call tracks that use similar progressions like that trance. It's cheesy, poppy, reeks of eurodance and gives the genre a very bad name.
So much so even, that alot of younger people think trance is nothing but tunes with pogressions like that one.

If you want to use this because you "like this alot" as you say, please rethink. You should be able to differentiate actual quality trance music (in whatever subgenre you can think of) from the generic popdance cheesiness some people *think* is trance.

My suggestion, drop it, listen to some good tunes, get inspired and start over, even when you're doing this just for fun.
Here are a few actual quality trance tracks ranging from progressive to vocal to high energy, that DON'T feature chord progressions like the one you've uploaded.
This post made me physically ill for a moment.
  #5  
Old 2012-08-11, 08:12
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danny_f danny_f is offline
 
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To illCarl.

Finish your track anyway. Who cares if its been done. Who cares if its cheesy. The point is to have FUN. Now go out there and PLAY.

God its been a creative desert here for so long... I wish I had half of the momentum you seem to have right now. Stop THINKING!!!! just GO WITH IT! =)
  #6  
Old 2012-08-11, 09:19
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Wensell Wensell is offline
 
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So true, Danfarmer! Often it is your own thoughts (I'm not good enough) that keep your song half finished, pushed away and forgotten on a 5400 rpm HDD. Just do it!
  #7  
Old 2012-08-13, 18:09
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TheFatControlleR TheFatControlleR is offline
 
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by danfarmer View Post
Finish your track anyway. Who cares if its been done. Who cares if its cheesy. The point is to have FUN. Now go out there and PLAY.

God its been a creative desert here for so long... I wish I had half of the momentum you seem to have right now. Stop THINKING!!!! just GO WITH IT! =)
+1

I tend not to shy away from doing shizz that's been done before, or even done to death. But then again I do it for my own entertainment anyway. It might be a different kettle of teleostomian delights if I were trying to break into 'The Biz' or discover the mother lode.

As for a dearth of creativity; I've been barren for a while, forcing myself to at least try something for the Re-Tron Forum Challenge and then coming up with this Trance derivative almost immediately afterwards - there's nothing new in it, but it kept me busy for a while and hopefully it's a bridge to something else.. C'est la vie!
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Last edited by TheFatControlleR; 2012-08-13 at 18:14.
  #8  
Old 2012-08-11, 13:19
illCarl's Avatar
illCarl illCarl is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlubeck View Post
Well, ehr, here's the thing, and I'm going to be harsh but real since you claim you became a trancehead in an excellent period of trance tunes, the 90's.
It's the easiest, most basic and overused chord progression ever used in dance music, to the point it's almost sickening.

I refuse to call tracks that use similar progressions like that trance. It's cheesy, poppy, reeks of eurodance and gives the genre a very bad name.
So much so even, that alot of younger people think trance is nothing but tunes with pogressions like that one.

If you want to use this because you "like this alot" as you say, please rethink. You should be able to differentiate actual quality trance music (in whatever subgenre you can think of) from the generic popdance cheesiness some people *think* is trance.

My suggestion, drop it, listen to some good tunes, get inspired and start over, even when you're doing this just for fun.
Here are a few actual quality trance tracks ranging from progressive to vocal to high energy, that DON'T feature chord progressions like the one you've uploaded.

Planisphere - Moonshine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXU5-4xPQZI

Jan Johnston - Flesh (remix) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmKWHy4KUp0

Push - Universal Nation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnBeTPpr98g



Hi Rlubeck

Many thanks for your reply. It's ok to be harsh and real, I like a good debate


Well, let me put it this way: I wouldn't say I became a trancehead.. I just had a phase in the early 90's (basically it was one of my first steps in to the world of electronic music), however I rather quickly moved away from that style since to me every single trance track started sounding very very cheesy to me.

And it got worse... I got to a point where I would only listen to Detroit / Acid / and maybe Progressive Techno (at least that's what it was called at that time.. ) because I wanted to be "underground".

I started refusing to listen to any track containing lead synths, vocals, a piano or whatever could create a melodic element in a track. You know why? I thought it was not "underground" enough.. It was all "commercial bullshit" to me. To me it meant that a producer didnt know about "real" music. In my mind, producers who were not "underground" had sold their souls and were just after the quick buck.

It took a while to realise how stupid I was.

I started DJ'ing and quickly had to realise that only a minority of clubbers (not producers / musicians... normal clubbers, ravers etc.) do care about an idealistic view of music. Most prople just wanted to dance to songs THEY like, no matter how cheesy they were.

So when you say "alot of younger people think trance is nothing but tunes with pogressions like that one".. So what? What exactly is wrong about it? Don't get me wrong.. As mentioned above, I was feeling the same thing... But why? Why can people not just enjoy whatever type of music they want? Does it make them bad people? Is it written anywhere?

I was lucky enough to start dj'ing in some of the major clubs in Zurich. To get there however I had to change my mind and start compromising on the music I'd like to play.. I had to go buy some "mainstream" records.. Vocal House, 2Step etc.

All of a sudden I had changed camp, I was basically doing what I had always denounced: I was playing records which would allow me to get gigs in certain clubs, but I was not allowed to play the music I really loved.

This went on until I realised one thing: The people in front of me paid to get into the club and have a great night.. They don't want to listen to the music I like, they want to listen to the music THEY like! If I want to play my music, I'd need to do it for myself or in small venues, private events etc. That's not what I wanted. I wanted to play for "the masses".

I am 34 now and feel ashamed about my early elitary way of thinking. I still love Acid, Detroit, Progressive etc, but If you look up my soundcloud page you will find also some commercial stuff.

To get back to the Chord Progression.. No matter how cheesy this chord progression sounds.. Nowadays I can easily admit that I like it a lot without fearing to loose "credibility". I still love Detroit and Acid, I still produce it and there are some people who enjoy those tracks. However, I wouldn't mind seeing some people dancing to the cheasiest synthline I ever produced and make me rich

I cannot make a living from my music, I stopped DJ'ing years ago and 90% of my productions are not exactly "mainstream".. But I am proud to have a song played on national radio (funny enough that it's not even a cheesy one..lol), But as said.. If I could make a buck or two with the cheasiest lead synth in the world, I'd do it immendiately! Because likeing a cheesy track doesnt mean you're not allowed to like "quality" music too.

That's just my view though.. I know this was a lengthy reply, but I find it quite fascinating topic
  #9  
Old 2012-08-11, 14:43
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electricfusion electricfusion is offline
 
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Posts: 2,485
True words Carl.
I spinned records (mostly small venues & private parties) for years and know how it is to play music
which isn´t your favorite but well you are getting paid to entertain the "masses" thus who cares.
I must admit that i "emptied" the dancefloor once b/c i´d to play that Robert Hood record.
A more experienced DJ took me aside and told me."There´s one trick...play for the girls b/c if they dance guys automatically will dance as well." (pretty obvious,isn´t it? )
You can guess what i did from then on.
But i always had a few of my favorite records,my special weapons, w/ me...you know...just in case!

Now as a producer i make music that i like and i certainly don´t care if the masses love it but
if i ever come up w/ a billboard-chart tune and i could get serious money for i´d be dumb not to release it.Guess i´d use a different moniker for it. (well...just thinking about it,it´d be fun if someone buys a cd or download of my usual music and his synapses are getting a nice massage then )
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  #10  
Old 2012-08-11, 17:10
rlubeck's Avatar
rlubeck rlubeck is offline
 
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Posts: 782
Hey illCarl, thanks for the reply

Sorry, I assumed you were a trancehead in the day.
Our backgrounds are actually pretty comparible, I'm 33, started in '92 and was doing live performances at underground parties from around '96, pushing Roland MC303/MC505/Yamaha CS2x driven hardcore, techno and acid to the wacked out audiences^^. I bought those machines together with two buddies of mine and we spent our time making the most freaky loops and noisesequences. It was a blast^^

I to was against alot of commercial sounding top 40 nonsense (and still am for the most part) but I did recognize (proper) trance and other styles also, unlike my buddies who went more and more tech-experimental and noisy, queue Autechre, Aphex Twin, anything Warp Records really.
There were no grey areas for them, hardcore, schranz, hardtechno was too hard for them, trance, ambient, chill/lounge too soft.

So we split and did our own things. I went on to try to become proficient in all of the above genres and got signed to a hardcore label initially (5th Gear Rec/Rams Horn Rec) but was unable to do other styles there and after a year or so we parted.

Maybe it was me being a bastard rebel but whenever I went clubbing myself and whenever cheesy crap came on I felt nauseous (much like that danfarmer kid posting above lol) and aggrivated. The easily recognizable, overused poppy stuff is something I hated and have kept hating fiercly.

There's nothing wrong with beautiful melodies and great synthlines, but when a chord progression so familiar, so cheesy is heard, you can easily imagine how everything else in that track will sound.
Do kids like it these days? Yep, but they tend to bounce to anything coming out of a big PA system in a club with flashy lights and girls swarming around while holding their beers, wether it's mainstream pop/dance or the latest experimental adventure by artist X. As long as there's a beat, they'll jump

It's not about "credibility", if you like it, you like it, but knowing that you've atleast had a trance phase in a time when it was actually good compared to alot of trance nowadays, I felt the need to link a few tracks that are pretty much classics in the genre.
Listening to your chord progression brought the "defender of real trance" side of me back to the surface.

Quote:
Because likeing a cheesy track doesnt mean you're not allowed to like "quality" music too.
Here's where we differ I guess.
Anyway, didn't expect all this typing to happen after listening to a few bars of cheese. And don't take offense in this, but if you're going to finish it and make it into a track, I won't be clicking the link
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