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  #1  
Old 2012-11-09, 20:41
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Sampling commercial tracks questions ?

Hello
here is my question : is it still legal to sample a part of a commercial track to integrated to your own stuff as long as the sample is less then 3seconds ?
or do we have to pay rights to use a samples 3 sec long ?

thanks.
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  #2  
Old 2012-11-09, 20:44
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No. This was always an urban legend.
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  #3  
Old 2012-11-09, 20:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spatzle View Post
No. This was always an urban legend.

woow no way , I wanted to sample a thing that is just about 3sec nooooo....I'm cursed
thank you for that fast responce !
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  #4  
Old 2012-11-10, 01:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlycharlzz View Post
woow no way , I wanted to sample a thing that is just about 3sec nooooo....I'm cursed
thank you for that fast responce !
sample copy right is a mine field !. but on that note also is the sample from an original track that has not allready used samples ? i ask this as if its a sample thats been used in many other things or had come from puplic domain etc etc they have no right over copyrighting such materials. also if they have sampled and not cleard it also its ligit to take thier what they think is copyrighted. most people have samples in thier tracks and do not clear them in the first place which would in fact mean ,if you sampled them and thier source is not original, to that they would have to prove then its not yours . remember they have to prove anything just like you would . most comercial tracks of digital music has samples coverd up and mashed in all sorts of guises. try find where they got thier sound from first wether they recorded it themselves from thier own instruments played by them. or if they sampled and mashed. allways worth the hunt as i say as youll probally find its been knicked or they have nicked from somewhere . an example of this how many drumm and bass tracks get clearance from james browns camp for funky drummer used in more tracks than anything ever most probally and you find all different variations of this in most every sample libary etc etc. so using ya noodle and a bit of fly you can just about get away with anyhting. remember no one makes anything new nowdays its all been done before them chords you thought you made or created you didnt they have been done, most of whats new is the sound used not the structure of said musical pattern , chord what ever. even the beatles etc used to source thier material from others work patching it together to make thier own thing from it.
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  #5  
Old 2012-11-10, 01:14
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one thing here charles remember most song thats ever hit big time uses the same four chords !. did they ask for clearance from each other no ! and why because you just cant copyright standard material full stop you have to prove you created the original and sorry the guys who did are long dead and buried. its the sounds ie the way its sculpted and the different sound to any one elses you create that can only be classed as yours. like a singer the voice can be thier original thing but every word has been sang before. just they put them into a different arrangement .
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  #6  
Old 2012-11-10, 18:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac0123 View Post
one thing here charles remember most song thats ever hit big time uses the same four chords !. did they ask for clearance from each other no ! and why because you just cant copyright standard material full stop you have to prove you created the original and sorry the guys who did are long dead and buried. its the sounds ie the way its sculpted and the different sound to any one elses you create that can only be classed as yours. like a singer the voice can be thier original thing but every word has been sang before. just they put them into a different arrangement .

so I did never think about this or maybe 20 years ago but you right it's worth the hunt , I wanted to sample a 3 sec loop from one of the first rap tracks ever made so by lissening to it I finded out the loop contain another sample from way way back so even if I cannot find the original yet i will hunt it down thanks for makng me see more clear about that !
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  #7  
Old 2012-11-10, 01:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlycharlzz View Post
or do we have to pay rights to use a samples 3 sec long ?
Sorry, I've seen this part later. So, to be more precise:

There's no maximum limit that's automatically allowed to sample. Maybe a judge can decide that the sound you use is not unique (and may be used for free), but I wouldn't rely on that.
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  #8  
Old 2012-11-10, 01:25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spatzle View Post
Sorry, I've seen this part later. So, to be more precise:

There's no maximum limit that's automatically allowed to sample. Maybe a judge can decide that the sound you use is not unique (and may be used for free), but I wouldn't rely on that.
he can sample use etc as long as it is for non comercial use if it is noticable.
but if he intends on using it commercialy and it is totaly a rip off and noticeable from the source and they have claim then just get clearance on this usualy not a big deal
and dont realy cost much unless as i said your dealing with the likes of james browns lawers they will try sucking you dry.
most one hit wonders or etc usualy would grant for small one of fee or a realy small percentage of sales but mostly you wont get stung and noticed unless it hits mainstream making shed loads
then they get greedy and catch up to you and want royalties.
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  #9  
Old 2012-11-10, 03:40
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Also remember that different countries have different copyright laws, so even though US copyright law is really excessive in a lot of ways, there are still countries where copyrights are not recognized at all, and many places in between. Make sure you look up copyright laws for your country specifically.
  #10  
Old 2012-11-10, 05:03
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Here is the truth, as far as US copyright law goes:

All copying of another person's work is illegal.

Except in certain cases.

The exceptions can be found in the Fair Use clause of the copyright law, and some of them include exemptions for things like academic use, or for critique or review, or parody. Furthermore, whether a work that copies another is done for profit or not, or how much of the original work is copyrighted, and how much it transforms the original, can have an effect on whether copying is considered Fair Use or not.

How do you know what qualifies as Fair Use? You don't, really, not until someone sues you over it. Samples as short as 3 notes have been successfully sued over. On the other hand, Girl Talk uses very recognizable samples and so far I haven't heard of a lawsuit against him. None of the conditions of Fair Use are an automatic protection against being sued. Some things made for non-profit have been sued and removed. Some things that made a lot of money have been sued but were successfully defended.

This is how it works: You sample a piece of music. If the owner hears about it, and decides they don't like it, they can take legal action against you. (Usually, this is where you get a Cease and Desist letter, and most people roll over at this point, not wishing to face a lawsuit.) If you choose to defend yourself using Fair Use, what you are basically saying is, "yes, I sampled this song without permission. However, because of [reasons], I feel the use is permitted under the Fair Use copyright clause". So you are admitting to the deed.

Then a judge or jury (usually a judge) will consider the evidence and decide whether or not your use, indeed, qualifies as Fair Use.

The problem is that judges are not always artists. They might not have the same outlook on things like commentary or collage. Also, there can be many different interpretations of whether a sample qualifies as Fair Use. The guidelines are pretty fuzzy, and you won't really know until a judge reaches a verdict whether or not your use qualifies as Fair Use.

This is why most major labels get all samples they know about cleared before they release albums - the hassle of settling this in court makes it easier to just clear samples regardless of whether the usage is a likely Fair Use exemption.

On the other hand, some artists use samples and never get sued. So if you sample without permission, you're basically rolling the dice. Maybe you'll luck out, maybe not.
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