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  #1  
Old 2012-11-27, 04:42
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snowrideit snowrideit is offline
 
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Question Layering for Thicker Sound?

Does anyone layer their drum beats. I know I typically layer (duplicate synths and bass to get a thicker sounds... when I played the track on the home stereo it sounded great, when I played it in my car the drums sounded wimpy. Any tips would be helpful, I am super new to this whole music making passion of mine.
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Old 2012-11-27, 16:02
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I wish someone paid me in drum layers.
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  #3  
Old 2012-11-27, 18:26
jezob1 jezob1 is offline
 
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upload a the mix so people can have a listen
  #4  
Old 2012-11-27, 18:49
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The biggest part of layering is all about being able to listen to your mix critically and make assured decissions on what is missing and what layers to look for.

Don't just keep stacking kicks up cuz they'll end up sounding s**t, they'll possibly phase out you'll end up with a flabby powerless kick.

You need to be thinking, for example...."hmm that snare lacks low end" etc
and go on the hunt to find a low ended snare to sit underneath.

get a loop of your drums up and load a redrum, place the snare hits (or what ever you're layering) where you'd want them in the step sequencer and hit play. then as you scroll through snare samples you can hear them in real time layered up with whats there and this will give you a good indication if something is going to work right from the off......plus it'll save you ages trying to make it work only to end up scrapping it!.

Once you got something that works well without tweeking start playing with the pitch, sample lenghts, sample start, eq.

i'll go into it a touch more later, got to leave work first
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Old 2012-11-27, 19:14
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You don't really need to layer kicks at all - the key is good samples. The kick in the first part of the track below is one drum sample. The kick drum in the 2nd part of the track (dubstep part) has a sub kick layered below it.

If you're making dance music just make sure that the kick peaks louder than anything else, and use subtle side-chaining to let it pump through even more.

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I think people often over-treat kick drums, good samples, side-chaining, and good gain-staging is the key IMO

I do sometimes layer snare drums, but I only have 2 maximum - there are 2 snare drums in the track here. I will use a transient shaper to give the sound snappiness, and will also low cut anything below 100-200hz. Good samples is key again.
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  #6  
Old 2012-11-27, 19:32
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Every. Single. Drum. Beat. You. Hear. On. The. Radio. Is. Layered. And the "good samples" too
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  #7  
Old 2012-12-02, 05:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvatarOne View Post
You don't really need to layer kicks at all - the key is good samples. The kick in the first part of the track below is one drum sample. The kick drum in the 2nd part of the track (dubstep part) has a sub kick layered below it.

If you're making dance music just make sure that the kick peaks louder than anything else, and use subtle side-chaining to let it pump through even more.

Loading SoundCloud…


I think people often over-treat kick drums, good samples, side-chaining, and good gain-staging is the key IMO

I do sometimes layer snare drums, but I only have 2 maximum - there are 2 snare drums in the track here. I will use a transient shaper to give the sound snappiness, and will also low cut anything below 100-200hz. Good samples is key again.
I would agree that good quality samples make a world of difference in regard to creating the percussion rhythms that are typical in contemporary dance music. But with the available effects processing in reason now, its possible to turn even the reason samples into the booming/punchy/dynamic loops you are looking for. Proper effect stacking and layering, as well as incorporating grooves (I find manually creating this to be far easier than the regroove, for the purposes of minimal/progressive beats anyway) is the name of this game.

For the Kicks I use Vengeance 16bit samples or Thomas Pention 24bit samples - usually two. Finding two samples that sit harmoniously is key - experimenting with importing the sample(s) into NN19s and triggering the kick samples at different "keys" will raise or lower the sample sound/increase or decrease sample speed (further augmentable with the sample start knob top right on NN19). This is a trial and error game more or less as someone above mentioned (as is alot of the percussion game, until your brain starts its muscle memory and you begin to notice pleasing patterns et al.). Using the SSL HPF/LPF options are wonderful for brickwall filtering every sound in your mix, particularly the percussion, and kicks are no exception. you can safely eliminate under 30hz and probably anything over 1.6khz (but every song/sample dictates this individually so there are no magic numbers, but the 30hz cut is pretty standard period for mastering stage as well). Also using a stereo imager set to lowpass and using the middle knob to lowpass anywhere you choose under I believe 6khz is the limit on the mclass imager..yeah that will further clarify the sample sounds so you can keep what you want and get rid of the rest for extra headroom elsewhere in the mix. Saturation knob/dcam channel comp/FET comp parallel compression are all useful (as well as dcam env shaper, brings out the transient punch in the samples). Sometimes a light sidechain on the sub kick sample of the two sounds good, experimentation is key here. whatever works, works. Also remember with eq'ing in general its always better to cut than to boost; turn up the volume rather than excess eq boosting - however there are times where you want the opposite for effect.. rules are always meant to be broken in music production IMHO. And furthermore: CUT THIN/BOOST FAT (regarding your Q values). Always mono (99.9999% but SOMETIMES... you can break this rule with very little pan spread on a stereo kick.. but I dont rec. unless you have professional grade monitoring equipment).

Snares - 3-5+ per mix depending on genre. layer layer layer. diversify mono and stereo and automate throughout the track. i find that its better to uber automate a lesser tracked song than to have hundreds of "sounds" that are all kind of boring in their repetitive selves. so in regard to snares - mono/stereo and also incorporate reverse snares for the sucking effect in between regular snare patterns for dynamic appeal. This is easily accomplished by loading a long tailed sample - Vengeance/Wave Alchemy/Thomas Penton (avail on tranceaddict forum) and importing into NN19. From there go to the sample FW/BW option via the knob corresponding to the option in the blue screen menu bottom right on the front of the NN19 and pick FW/BW (forward/backward). Then turn the sample start knob to 127 and begin playing the sample, changing the sample start to taste to get the proper sucking sound. Futher increase the dynamics by increasing the envelope attack function to taste - this delays the start of the sample to help with your groove settings when moving the samples millimeters left and right of their original quantized locations. Saturation/FET/ENV Shaper/ECHO ROLL NOTE: Sidechaining these samples in different varying degrees is extremely useful for grooves. If you want the most effective way to create sidechain in reason and be able to automate it without fucking up the sound just let me know - mclass comp+redrum (using volume on redrum to trigger sidechain compressor as automation option).

Claps follow same above snare logic. remember to brickwall filter these and above - i wont throw out numbers as its really dependent on the individual sample but you are prolly safe cutting under 150hz always and cutting above 12khz

High hats are tricky. they kind of defy the rest in their treatment and placement. im not even gonna go there right now.
  #8  
Old 2012-11-28, 01:01
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snowrideit snowrideit is offline
 
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thanks for the info! very helpful
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Old 2012-11-28, 01:00
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snowrideit snowrideit is offline
 
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Here is the song. its not just i just got the sections i wanted, then Ill arrange it into a song layer. http://soundcloud.com/rinstir/inside-my-beat
  #10  
Old 2012-11-28, 01:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowrideit View Post
Here is the song. its not just i just got the sections i wanted, then Ill arrange it into a song layer. http://soundcloud.com/rinstir/inside-my-beat
The whole arrangement dwarfs the drums a bit. I guess they could be a good bit louder in relation. Also the effects cause low frequency mud and generally the balance between effects, instruments and drums doesn't quite seem to work. I guess you should work on the single sounds and how they work together first.
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