Propellerhead Software
  #1  
Old 2005-02-02, 03:48
Jeff242 Jeff242 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 34
Rebirth 3.0

Hi,
I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the future of Rebirth.
In an article I read, it was an interview with one of the owners of Propellerhead, he said that Rebirth is in hibernation, awaiting a possible future upgrade. You got to admit, Rebirth needs some upgrades to keep up with the fast pace of computer music software. Well, I hope that Props are working on or soon to be working on the next update to Rebirth. Here I'm going to list a few features I would like to see in Rebirth 3.0:

-New Synth engine
I'm not saying that Rebirth doesn't sound good, but when rebirth was created, the best pc was a Pentium 2 450mhz. Now with pc's at 3.5 ghz, I'm sure that can be taken advantage of. I believe that all the circuits of the TB-303 can be modeled to even greater accuracy!! And maybe the samples of the TR-808 and TR-909 could be taken to 32 bit 192k!

-Sequencer
A much needed sequencer! You have to admit, programming a song with Rebirth is not easy, and the real pain starts when you are finished with a song and you need to rearrange the song. The #1 reason why I don't use Rebirth in more of my songs than I do is the lack of this feature. Imagine: A separate window with a sequencer with three editing modes- 1 for the creation and editing of individual Patterns for each device. 2 for the arrangement of the patterns of each device over a timeline(you could paint the patterns on a track). 3 for the visual editing of Automation for each function on each device (like on reason). If rebirth had this feature..OH MY GOD!!!

-Modular Environment
Start with an empty rack, add 1 or 2 or 20 TB-303's, then add 4 909's, each with different pitch and decay settings. Then have different effects for each device and have the ability to rearrange the order of the effects. Of course, a modular environment would need a mixer, a mixer with inserts, sends and automation. The only limit to how big your Rebirth setup is, is your CPU.

-More Effects.
Different compressors, tubes, stereo imagers, delays, phasers flangers, EQs, amp models, cabinet models, mic models, choruses, reverbs. All could be used as sends or inserts in the modular setup.

I really don't think my suggestions are way out there and I think of these as necessities rather than "it would be nice if..." features. Rebirth would sell like crazy with these features. Plus all the features I mentioned here have already been done by props: in Reason.
But all in all I would just love to see Rebirth have a rebirth soon!
Jeff
  #2  
Old 2005-02-02, 16:00
arothman's Avatar
arothman arothman is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 41
just out of curiosity...

Having never used ReBirth, I don't know much about it. My understanding though is that everything that used to be done in ReBirth can be done (and more) in Reason. What's the advantage in having a new ReBirth version instead of just migrating to Reason?
[url=http://www.arothman.com]
  #3  
Old 2005-02-03, 09:57
Jeff242 Jeff242 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 34
Re: just out of curiosity...

Having never used ReBirth, I don't know much about it. My understanding though is that everything that used to be done in ReBirth can be done (and more) in Reason. What's the advantage in having a new ReBirth version instead of just migrating to Reason?

The answer to that is simple. Reason does not have a physical model of the Roland TB-303. In case you don't know what a physical model is, Ill explain it.
Rebirth is a virtual model of the Roland Tb-303, meaning that Rebirth is generating sound almost exactly as the real Tb-303 did only in a virtual world...ie. your CPU. Propellerhead created a virtual model of all the circuts of the 303 so that the signal would follow as close of a path as did the real thing.
So why is that better than sampling the Real 303 using world class mics at 32 bit 192K loaded into Reason? Another good question. Because you cannot tweek samples the way you could tweek the real 303. If you have a physical model that behaves the same as the orginal, then you can tweek it the same as the orginal.
  #4  
Old 2005-02-03, 20:05
sl4TM's Avatar
sl4TM sl4TM is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 172
Re: just out of curiosity...


So Reason 3.5 could have a 303 and we could be done with all this.

I'm finding the possibility of getting a real 303 in the Reason rack unlikely, but I'm expecting to definitely see some killer 303 emulation patches for the Combinator.

Mike
sl4 dot poned dot com
  #5  
Old 2005-02-04, 04:31
djen djen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 65
303 emulation

It's already possible to emulate a 303 in Reason. The combinator may make it easier to load up a patch with the effects already chained for you, but a subtractor, a scream, and a compressor can produce many flavours of 303 already.
  #6  
Old 2005-02-16, 15:44
Jeff242 Jeff242 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 34
Re: 303 emulation

It's already possible to emulate a 303 in Reason. The combinator may make it easier to load up a patch with the effects already chained for you, but a subtractor, a scream, and a compressor can produce many flavours of 303 already.

-Yeah, the flavor of a cheesey 303 sound!!!
  #7  
Old 2005-03-18, 15:54
m0thr4 m0thr4 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 17
Re: 303 emulation

:It's already possible to emulate a 303 in Reason. The combinator may make it easier to load up a patch with the effects already chained for you, but a subtractor, scream, and a compressor can produce many flavours of 303 already.

Not if you want to tweak the cutoff and frequency Josh Wink-style. The Subtractor's filters are totally inadequate for this.
  #8  
Old 2005-02-14, 19:00
Action Action is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 2
Re: just out of curiosity...

The answer to that is simple. Reason does not have a physical model of the Roland TB-303. In case you don't know what a physical model is, Ill explain it.
:Rebirth is a virtual model of the Roland Tb-303, meaning that Rebirth is generating sound almost exactly as the real Tb-303 did only in a virtual world...ie. your CPU. Propellerhead created a virtual model of all the circuts of the 303 so that the signal would follow as close of a path as did the real thing.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think Rebirth was a real physical model of the TB303. I'm not sure my old Pentium 150 was capable of calculating the state of the complete TB303 circuit in real time. I think they made a virtual signal chain that sounds as much like the real thing as possible. From my understanding, the Props didn't get down to the schematic level, but they used a real 303 for comparison throughout development. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the model of the 303 needs some work. Rebirth still doesn't sound as nice as a real 303. There are other 303 simu/emulators that sound better.

What someone else said is absolutely correct: the ultimate solution is to have TB-303, TR-808, and TR-909 instruments that you can put into the Reason rack. Then you get the routing, the FX, the sequencer, and the saved patches. I would vote for a Rebirth add-on pack to Reason. I know the Props want Reason to remain an all-in-one package where the songs can be shared over the internet and everything. But the existence of commercial refills throws that model out the window anyway. If you download a track that requires the Rebirth add-on, and you don't have it, it's the same as not being able to correctly play a song because you don't have the right commercial refill.

I'm personally not a fan of using the Subtractor to simulate the 303 sound. It will rarely sound like the real thing, and there's something hokey about using a half-assed imitator patch. If you're gonna take the time to do something special with the Subtractor, make a new sound!
  #9  
Old 2005-03-11, 07:23
moorejollie's Avatar
moorejollie moorejollie is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 100
Re: just out of curiosity...

In a way, yes, you can do most everything in Reason that you can do in ReBirth..BUT Reason lacks the cool factor of having a set of the replicated bass and drum machines that ReBirth models.
I agree, ReBirth needs a sequencer. It's just a real a pain in the ass to work with especially in ReWire mode. I hardly ever use it anymore.
One thing that needs to be fixed is the programming functions. Trying to create bass lines or add samples to the units is absolutely aggravating. Having a sequencer window with a few advanced editing functions would be a blessing.
Cheers.
  #10  
Old 2005-02-04, 04:36
djen djen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 65
Re: Rebirth 3.0

I'd have to say that I agree with some of your ideas but not all of them. Rebirth was never really meant to be a "studio". The fact that it *can* sequence is mostly a nostalgic thing, so that you can program it like the old hardware used to be programmed.

Rebirth is really intended more as a plugin instrument, to compliment a real sequencer. So rather than add yet another sequencer into Rebirth, I'd rather see more focus on compatibility and sound quality.

I believe that Rebirth is only 16bit at the moment, and it would be nice for the studiophiles to get higher quality output from the synthesis engine. More effects couldn't hurt, but really, there are so many external effects these days that its not all that essential.

To me, Rebirth doesn't consistute a complete enough system for standalone song composition. I know people have done it, adn still do it, but to me, a TB303, 808, and 909 are raw feed which I can apply my own effects to and control with other sequencers.
 

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