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  #1  
Old 2012-08-17, 05:13
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djfm1983 djfm1983 is offline
 
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Exclamation Yamaha HS80Ms vs M-Audio Bx5s. Sine sweep results near the same

My buddy from Church let me borrow his Yamaha HS80Ms because he wasn't using them. I figured I'd run some sine sweeps measurements in Room Eq Wizard (with a calibrated rta mic) to see if there would be a difference between my speakers and his. The only place I saw a real change is above 1hz. You can see (I attached the results) that room modes play a big part in any room. I would tell anyone who was interested in buying studio monitors (or just upgrading) to first look into the controlling the acoustics first. Keep in mind that I have alot of acoustic treatment up in my studio (I need to buy more bass traps as you can see in the results). My studio is in a small room so that's why I think I'm having a bass issue.

This is how I set the levels up with pink noise ( I ran so many sweeps with the Yamahas messing with the settings (room control boost/cut, mids boost/cut, low cut, highs boost/cut) trying to see if could get a better result than the M-Audios).

M-Audio Bx5s at 85db and the M-Audio Bx10 at 95db with the crossover at 80hz.
Yamaha HS80Ms at 85db and the M-Audio Bx10 at 85db with the crossover at 55hz.Also had a -4db on the room control switch (500hz cut) on the Yamahas.

I spent 200$ on both Bx5s first generation (on sale at Guitar Center to make room for the 2nd gen) and the Yamaha HS80Ms run 349.99$ each (on sweetwater.com). I think my 200$ for both speakers are well worth the price. I really need to invest in some bass traps.

I remember seeing a while back a thread asking what studio monitors do you use and lots of people talking about how they wanted to upgrade to new speakers. People please before you upgrade start thinking about how your acoustics are in your room. This could save you alot of time and money trying to have mixes that "translate" outside of your studio.

I know where my problems are at and know what I must do to help fix my acoustics. Buying a new set of speakers aren't going to help me one bit. I have serious room modes that are effecting my bass range. I gotta start saving up for bass traps.
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File Type: jpg yamaha hs80ms maudio bx5s.jpg (86.0 KB, 43 views)
  #2  
Old 2012-08-17, 15:25
baresark baresark is offline
 
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Why would you even bother taking measurments, using a $300 pair of speaker. Don't want to come over as a douchebag, but im pretty sure that you can't have a linear, transparent listening experience without expensive monitors. I personally did nothing about my room. I just pulled down the bass frequencies, since the speakers are standing too close to a wall. Other than that the room is pretty good shaped and stuffed with shelves and stuff. But im soo glad that i exchanged my Tannoy Reveal Actives for a pair of Klein Hummel O 300 Ds with a FIR controller. My mixes got better alot since then. Agree that its best to pay an accoustic-expert in order to adjust my room and the settings of my filter.
I am interested what you are exaclty doing though. Maybe you could go a bit more into detail or put some videos on youtube in which you explain your measurement and adjustment process.

edit: Yamaha ns10 were an exception, but these are sold pretty expensive these days 2nd hand

Last edited by baresark; 2012-08-17 at 15:31.
  #3  
Old 2012-08-17, 17:28
StormCanada StormCanada is offline
 
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Why are you semi-attacking the OP on this one? He just followed something he wanted to do and posted the results. He made no judgments other than he was surprised by the results where he had been told expensive = better. Simple.

Our society is so antagonistic sometimes.
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  #4  
Old 2012-08-17, 18:08
baresark baresark is offline
 
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That really wasn't meant as an attack. I guess im allowed to post my opinion?

I just wanted to get a discussion going and im curious what OP and other posters have to say about the price/quality topic and what one can do to improve his/her listening experience.
  #5  
Old 2012-08-17, 18:44
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCanada View Post
Why are you semi-attacking the OP on this one? He just followed something he wanted to do and posted the results. He made no judgments other than he was surprised by the results where he had been told expensive = better. Simple.
This is assuming that his testing is actually demonstrating what is "better sounding" - flatter isn't always better, FWIW, just like 'more expensive' isn't always better. It also depends on what you're looking for and how well it matches your current setup/needs (and your room acoustics). Lot's of speakers that all measure relatively flat can sound MUCH different from each other, indicating that the measured frequency response isn't the only qualifying factor for 'good sound'. Not to mention that some speakers are still quite useful in music production that are far from flat, like aura tones or NS-10s. :-)
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  #6  
Old 2012-08-17, 18:47
StormCanada StormCanada is offline
 
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That's fine and that's fair. But ensure your opening statement supports that intention.

Quote:
Why would you even bother taking measurments....


You are MORE THAN ALLOWED to post your opinion. By all means, that's what the world needs. But you questioned his 'purpose' with your opening statement not the results.
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  #7  
Old 2012-08-17, 18:54
StormCanada StormCanada is offline
 
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Selig, not sure why you're quoting me. I've made no assumptions about the OP or his results. Your response is your assumption of what my assumption may have been. I've made no assumptions on the results of the study and I'm happy with my monitoring set up.

What I question is why the responder felt necessary to question the person's original purpose for doing a study.

It's because the guy was interested in it. Big deal.


Further the discussion on the subject, don't question why someone would do something. That's the point. Maybe you have an issue with me from some thing a long time ago. I have no idea but please don't put your assumptions of my possible assumptions on me. I made no assumptions of the results of the OP's study nor do I care. What I care about is people treating each other like their efforts were 'wasted', 'stupid', or whatever. The guy was interested in something and did some testing for himself and wanted to share. Big deal.
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  #8  
Old 2012-08-17, 19:03
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StormCanada View Post
Selig, not sure why you're quoting me. I've made no assumptions about the OP or his results. Your response is your assumption of what my assumption may have been. I've made no assumptions on the results of the study and I'm happy with my monitoring set up.

What I question is why the responder felt necessary to question the person's original purpose for doing a study.

It's because the guy was interested in it. Big deal.


Further the discussion on the subject, don't question why someone would do something. That's the point. Maybe you have an issue with me from some thing a long time ago. I have no idea but please don't put your assumptions of my possible assumptions on me. I made no assumptions of the results of the OP's study nor do I care. What I care about is people treating each other like their efforts were 'wasted', 'stupid', or whatever. The guy was interested in something and did some testing for himself and wanted to share. Big deal.
So sorry if my post seemed negative towards you in any way - I was simply responding to the 'idea' of being told that more expensive = better (and that measuring frequency response is just one way to measure performance). No reflection on you or your position was implied or intended, I was just continuing your line of though. Sorry I wasn't more clear on that! :-)

[I also hope you don't think I have any negative opinion about you (past or present) in ANY way - positive only, 100%!]
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  #9  
Old 2012-08-17, 19:33
StormCanada StormCanada is offline
 
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Cool. Thanks for clarifying selig. As I said, I'm making no assumptions of the study itself and glad we sorted it out through discussion.

Nor am I making any judgments of you either baresark. I'm sure you are a good guy and really are interested in the subject. Discussions are good and great. What I am against though is bullying or intimidation. Your first statement is antagonistic and unnecessary which is why I think you even stated 'come across as a douchebag.' You recognized maybe there was an antagonistic element there. The OP can be questioned on his results but questioning his 'Why' is belittling and I wanted to point it out because it takes away from the discussion not adds to it. I don't support bullying tactics (not your intention to do it, I know. I'm just pointing it out.) and I'm willing to take the punch to step in on anyone trying to belittle someone else. Yes, I do this in real life too not just in forums. And I always buy the first beer after too.

My point is please be careful how you start a discussion. Because we all want to further the discussions productively which is why I like this forum versus most others. People are interested in actual discussions here.

Glad we're all cool. First round at the Prop's pub! Hey Adam Fielding is on stage!
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  #10  
Old 2012-08-17, 20:41
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djfm1983 djfm1983 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baresark View Post
Why would you even bother taking measurments, using a $300 pair of speaker. Don't want to come over as a douchebag, but im pretty sure that you can't have a linear, transparent listening experience without expensive monitors. I personally did nothing about my room. I just pulled down the bass frequencies, since the speakers are standing too close to a wall. Other than that the room is pretty good shaped and stuffed with shelves and stuff. But im soo glad that i exchanged my Tannoy Reveal Actives for a pair of Klein Hummel O 300 Ds with a FIR controller. My mixes got better alot since then. Agree that its best to pay an accoustic-expert in order to adjust my room and the settings of my filter.
I am interested what you are exaclty doing though. Maybe you could go a bit more into detail or put some videos on youtube in which you explain your measurement and adjustment process.

edit: Yamaha ns10 were an exception, but these are sold pretty expensive these days 2nd hand
I posted a video about room eq wizard posted by GIK acoustics. REW is a program that lets you take room measurements. A program like this is something a acoustic engineer would use to check how your room is effecting your sound. I had to buy a spl meter and a rta mic (berhinger ecm8000 which I sent out to get calibrated so REW knows exaltly how its freq response is). Sinewaves don't have any harmonics (odd or even) and are sometimes called pure tones . Because of this sinewaves are used in testing rooms. Try this... Get a spl meter and play a sinewave in the bass range ( I've done this at 55hz to show other people in my studio how crazy sound waves are)and walk around your studio. You'll probably (because your room isn't treated ) see the meter not stay at the same level as you move around. This is due to standing waves. The overall object in setting up acoustic treatment is to have a flatter room response. Your not going to achieve a 100% flat response unless you turn your room into an anechoic chamber .
Ok so after you setup REW (calibrate your soundcard, load your calibration file for your mic (if you sent it out for calibration), calibrate your output with your spl meter your ready to start making measurements. I ran so many measurements with the yamahas messing with the cuts and boost on the back of the speakers ( http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HS80M/ click on the pic of the back of the speaker to see what knobs I'm talking about) I couldn't get a flatter room response because of standing waves. I also kept changing the setting on my sub to see if I could get a flatter bass response (messing with the crossover and trying too add 10db). You can see in the first attachment I posted how the dips and peaks are so close in range, this is because of standing waves. I thought because the yamahas are so much more expensive that the room response would be flatter but you can see it's not (keep in mind the measurement was only taken at the sweet spot). My results show that in my studio having the yamahas setup doesn't change things that much. So their not going to get me a flatter room response unlike I thought a more expensive setup would. Have you ever run a room measurement in your studio? You may have a way better setup than me speaker wise but you don't even know where your problem areas are in your room. If you have a 30db dip or peak in your room response your going to have tough time getting your mixes to "translate" outside of your studio. Overall I spent over an hour taking room measurements and the first attachment is on the setting that I achieved the flattest results. I didn't want to post the graph will all the measurements because you'd have a hard time reading each measurement. Question did you even look at the graph I posted? See how there's not that big of a difference? To me I don't understand how someone think "you can't have a linear, transparent listening experience without expensive monitors" and not take into account room acoustics. You have alot of things working against you in an untreated room ( standing waves, flutter echos, early reflections). My advice to you would be why not instal REW, buy a spl meter, buy a rta mic send it out to be calibrated, calibrate everything in REW and see how your room response is. I'd love for you to post the results so I could see if your investment in studio monitors was well worth it. The results I posted are for my studio and probably won't have the same results in another room.


Last edited by djfm1983; 2012-08-17 at 20:48.
 

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