Propellerhead Software
  #1  
Old 2012-08-29, 20:37
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bigant bigant is offline
 
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Upgrade Kong & Redrum

Kong and Redrum should be a two headed drum beast!

Kong: Needs thors osc,lfo and filters for real drums synthesis,what it has now is a joke!


Redrum: Needs a link button to connect patterns(once A1 stops at 64 step then A2 kick in with 64 more steps and so on,then bank B.

It would be cool if you could click on a step and drag up or down for pitch,this would eliminate the need to create another drum channel with a higher or lower pitched kick or trying to automate if in the sequencer(good luck with that with each note). Right clicking should bring up an automation window for each step like gate,roll,velocity,volume,flam,reverse etc... In ultrabeat being able to automate the sustain and gate of each note lets you go hard with the low tones with out them clashing(when one kick comes in the other stops).


The drums are the backbone of most DAWs just as it is in music,people are paying over $200 for Motu BPM that's half the cost of Reason! If you add better sampling editing and recycle integration you got %90 of the HIP HOP market!
Attached Files
File Type: zip Kick drum.thor.zip (1.1 KB, 12 views)
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Last edited by bigant; 2012-08-29 at 20:43.
  #2  
Old 2012-08-31, 06:11
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bigant bigant is offline
 
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Wow must not be many dudes who program their drums on this forum.
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  #3  
Old 2012-08-31, 17:41
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Stereoimagery Stereoimagery is offline
 
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You can route kong into thor for additional synthesis/programming
for the linking of redrum you can automate the pattern to switch.

As for the additional suggestions, they should be considered.
More detail on the step sequencer wouldn't be a bad idea.

I always route kong pads to the redrum step sequencer. And do more of the programming within Kong.
You can set up reverse slices, pitch drops using the nurse rex while wired into redrum for flams/rolls.
You can also automate the nurse rex within the kong as well, decay/sustain.
But there are times where I wish the flow could be a little more detailed/versatile.
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  #4  
Old 2012-08-31, 21:38
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigant View Post
Wow must not be many dudes who program their drums on this forum.
I program drums.

IMO I think some of these limitations are in Reason's GUI.

My biggest gripes with Redrum:

1. Like what you said with no easy way to adjust chromatic pitch (a la Fruityloops)

2. Triplets are a little difficult to visualize (minor gripes though).

3. Flam could be a little better. At slow tempos (70-80) it is difficult to sync flam to tempo.



Biggest Gripes with Kong (mainly GUI related):

1. No drag/drop of samples (compare with Ableton Live)
2. Limited Effects chain (compare with Ableton Live)
3. No note repeat
4. No individual outs for each pad (compare with Redrum)
5. No Recycle integration
6. Delays don't sync to tempo (don't see why this was omitted).

As far as step sequencing Kong, I think it is more of a live tool. I would be happy if they focus on making the piano roll more integrated to create drum patterns (paintbrush tool, divide tool, better zooming, changing snap values by key commands etc), and make blocks triggerable at quantized rates (a la MPC), that IMO would really open Kong up.
  #5  
Old 2012-08-31, 23:18
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bigant bigant is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgrimes View Post
I program drums.

IMO I think some of these limitations are in Reason's GUI.

My biggest gripes with Redrum:

1. Like what you said with no easy way to adjust chromatic pitch (a la Fruityloops)

2. Triplets are a little difficult to visualize (minor gripes though).

3. Flam could be a little better. At slow tempos (70-80) it is difficult to sync flam to tempo.



Biggest Gripes with Kong (mainly GUI related):

1. No drag/drop of samples (compare with Ableton Live)
2. Limited Effects chain (compare with Ableton Live)
3. No note repeat
4. No individual outs for each pad (compare with Redrum)
5. No Recycle integration
6. Delays don't sync to tempo (don't see why this was omitted).

As far as step sequencing Kong, I think it is more of a live tool. I would be happy if they focus on making the piano roll more integrated to create drum patterns (paintbrush tool, divide tool, better zooming, changing snap values by key commands etc), and make blocks triggerable at quantized rates (a la MPC), that IMO would really open Kong up.
As always good points.
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  #6  
Old 2012-09-01, 18:36
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigant View Post
If you add better sampling editing and recycle integration you got %90 of the HIP HOP market!

Cosign. Maybe not 90% but focus in this area would really attract a lot of Sample based producers (I think this would attract many electronica artists as well since a lot of them sample and work with loops as well.)


A well thought out Redrum style step sequencer and piano roll I think though is the other area that will really attract the masses to Reason.
  #7  
Old 2012-09-02, 12:51
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djfm1983 djfm1983 is offline
 
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You can kinda setup a note repeat in kong by loading a sample into the nx sampler, click edit sample and set it to loop. You can use the redrum as a seq for kong by routing the gate out's on redrum to the kong's pad gate in. You can route the audio of the pads out by selecting what channel output you want to set it to(which allows you to use as many fx you want). The delay on the kong is a tape delay which kinda explains why there isn't a sync feature. I set up pitch changes by using one nx sampler loading in 4 of the same sample and have the drum assignment edit have 4 pads one the same number and assign each to a different hit type and in the nx sampler I assign each hit type to a different pitch. My only complaint on the kong would be is some knobs can't be automated. Overall the kong is perfect in my opinion. Reading the Reason manual helped me to understand kong to the fullest (starting at page 750).
  #8  
Old 2012-09-02, 18:56
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bigant bigant is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djphathead View Post
You can kinda setup a note repeat in kong by loading a sample into the nx sampler, click edit sample and set it to loop. You can use the redrum as a seq for kong by routing the gate out's on redrum to the kong's pad gate in. You can route the audio of the pads out by selecting what channel output you want to set it to(which allows you to use as many fx you want). The delay on the kong is a tape delay which kinda explains why there isn't a sync feature. I set up pitch changes by using one nx sampler loading in 4 of the same sample and have the drum assignment edit have 4 pads one the same number and assign each to a different hit type and in the nx sampler I assign each hit type to a different pitch. My only complaint on the kong would be is some knobs can't be automated. Overall the kong is perfect in my opinion. Reading the Reason manual helped me to understand kong to the fullest (starting at page 750).
Can you make a better kick with kong than i made with thor? If not there's a problem when a dedicated drum synth can't make a drum sound better than a regular synth. But im glad it's perfect for you though.
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  #9  
Old 2012-09-02, 19:39
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djfm1983 djfm1983 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigant View Post
Can you make a better kick with kong than i made with thor? If not there's a problem when a dedicated drum synth can't make a drum sound better than a regular synth. But im glad it's perfect for you though.
As far as sound design using Kong's drum designers I don't go that route. Of course Thor can make better sounds! Your so limited on what you can do with the Kong's drum designers. Why don't you just create a cominator patch and have the thor be the back bone of a drum designer. There's probably a way to route the gate out cv on the back of the knog into Thor cv input and have the pads trigger thor.
When it come to drum sounds I let the pros handle that for me. I do on the other hand do sound design when coming up with synth sounds. If you make hip hop beats you should check out www.sonicspecialists.com they are by far the best drum samples I have come across for hip hop production. There's also a demo you can download to check'em out we worth it. I've been using their drum samples lately.
I was checking out your 2pac real talk soundcloud track and the kick drum sounded tight but your other drums (in my opinion) weren't up to par with the kick.Did you use thor for those drums? Cool beat overall just could use some type of switch up because it got repetitive really quick. I like what 2pac was talking about and it reminded me of this track I heard before who used clips from the same interview. Check it out here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze35HAdd038 . Bizzle ripped it on that track!
Keep banging out them beats!
  #10  
Old 2012-09-02, 20:38
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Yea it was just a loop i was really just trying to get opinions on the over all mix it's not finished yet,i'll do the arranging later,right now I'm working on my mixing skills. I pretty much can do all the breakdowns and arrangement already need to work on mixing. The kick and everything else came from my Korg Triton it's the only kick that i will use as a sample,all my kicks that i use now are from sine waves not samples. In my opinion you just don't get that round thump with samples with out adding a lot of layering. Yea i wanted the kick and the strings to standout mostly i wanted to see how hard i could push the kick without it bleeding over the strings to gauge how far i remix it. I've already created a combi using thor as the kick till i upgrade to motu BPM which already has the features i need.
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Last edited by bigant; 2012-09-02 at 20:57.
 

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