Propellerhead Software
Old 2012-09-22, 12:15
IncarnateX's Avatar
IncarnateX IncarnateX is offline
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The OP is highly likely a known troll from KVR....

....who is stalking Theo because he thinks he was to blame or his ban. His nickname at KVR is Myrna and he have had tons of banned sockpuppets at KVR ever since. First it was actually quite funny but his stalkings of Theo has become rather pathetic now. I advice the mods to remove it all.
Old 2012-09-22, 12:22
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eXode eXode is offline
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Posts: 3,487
Originally Posted by mac0123 View Post
Hi Me again .
Before the rants and the riddicules that seem to have been thrown towards me in the poll thread .
Id like to point everyone to three simple easy to read / understand and digest, articles on this very subject.

This is written just as an informative as I can point of view, which I hold and would like to share, it is not intended to upset, harm, offend, force my view or predujice no one in the process, it is purely for refference purposes and expression of personal view.
I'm sorry but some of you are missing one important point though. The EU Court only gives a preliminary ruling on how the law should be interpreted but it's still the home country, Germany's Federal Court in this case, that makes the final decision (although, it's likely that they will comply with the EU court preliminary ruling).

From one of the links you posted:

It is worth noting that the Court of Justice of the European Union did not make a judgment on the case itself, only explained the interpretation of European Union law, as the Court of Justice does not formally resolve disputes. The case now goes back to the Federal Court of Justice in Germany for it to decide the outcome, based on these findings. [via Slashdot]

My point being that, even if it's highly unlikely, the German Federal Court could still rule in favor of Oracle.

On the topic of National vs EU law, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia link you provided:

"Yet, as sovereignty still originates from the national level, it may be withdrawn by a member state who wishes to leave. Hence, if a law is agreed that is not to the liking of a state, it may withdraw from the EU to avoid it. This however has not happened as the benefits of membership are often seen to outweigh the potentially negative impact of a specific law. Furthermore, in realpolitik, concessions and political pressure may lead to a state accepting something not in their immediate interests in order to improve relations or strengthen their position on other issues.

The question of whether EU law is superior to national law is subject to some debate. The treaties do not give a judgement on the matter but court judgements have established EU's law superiority over national law and it is affirmed in a declaration attached to the Treaty of Lisbon (the European Constitution would have fully enshrined this). Some national legal systems also explicitly accept the Court of Justice's interpretation, such as France and Italy, however in Poland it does not override the national constitution, which it does in Germany."

Germany is a good example as they were at the other extreme initially but have then changed their position to that which is described above.
Old 2012-09-22, 12:43
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eXode eXode is offline
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Originally Posted by mac0123 View Post
look read and take in the implecations of the ruling and how this ruling came about.
The fact is not that it was one case in some random court in Germany, It was taken to the high court for quidance on EU Law/Directives/Statute etc.
And will be used as a guide for any fourth comming actions cases regarding the matters of digital media/software licencing.(Not just a prop thing but as a wholein the industry)
Also, if you have been working with law (it seems that you have more than average knowledge). You know, as well as me, that law is not black and white. There is always going to be interpretation (even the EU Court says how the law should be interpreted, not that "it is"). Interpretations are always subject to change, it might be necessary because of modernization etc.

I'm not making an argument for or against, I'm just discussing the nature of interpretation.

You could ask yourself, is the Oracle vs UsedSoft case comparable to RE (or a service like STEAM)? That case is about Oracles own software, directly sold to customer. If we compare to services like STEAM (which could be comparable to RE shop in some ways). VALVE themselves offer some games but they do not own the rights to all the other games, and one could make a similar comparison with Propellerhead (I know I'm playing the devils advocate, but it's on purpose). Propellerhead doesn't own the rights to all the 3rd party RE's. They are merely delivering a service of selling (difference from Oracle was the they both sold and owned the rights). And in turn, it's not the developers themselves that say that you cannot re-sell their RE plugins. Do you see that there's a possible loop here?

Would you be successful in a case against props if it concerned 3rd party RE's? On the other hard, would you be successful in a case against the 3rd party RE dev? Like I said, it's not black and white.
Old 2012-09-22, 12:45
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I swear others say at kvr that it's already law and i have no idea what to believe, and i have read it's law all eu must follow.

Exode i have no idea but your knowledge on this is obviously FAR greater than mine just from reading what you write, i guess we will all know one way or another soon enough.
Old 2012-09-22, 13:04
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MattiasHG MattiasHG is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,429
Well, this thread is basically an all out war. I think it's time we close it!

Regarding EU law, I'm not well-versed so I can't really give an answer. The only answer regarding REs and resale I can give is that REs were released what.. three months ago? We have no plans to stop improving the system.

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