Propellerhead Software
  #21  
Old 2012-03-22, 23:25
selig's Avatar
selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
As you know, in other hosts, this is simply called automation. There might be a pretty straight-forward way to convert CV to MIDI CC or whatever is needed. I'm probably not following your part of the discussion correctly, but thought I'd throw this in anyway. CV and automation aren't so very different in some respects.

What might be lost on VST is the concept of a plug-in sending CV out. But since no (or very few, none that I know of) VST plug-ins send automation out the implementation wouldn't be necessary.
CV out AND CV in are not possible in other platforms to my knowledge. Automation IS possible, but it's not what I thought we were talking about specifically here. :-)
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  #22  
Old 2012-03-23, 00:19
fizbin fizbin is offline
 
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Why wouldn't you be able to convert to and from CV, which is little more than values on a scale similar to MIDI CC. There are frequently so many automatable parameters on a VST that you'd never be able to expose them all through CV. Theoretically, a user could select which parameters would be CV, and those would be exposed on the wrapper UI.

Not saying it's possible end to end, but really what is CV other than just a different way to control a knob on a linear scale?

I know this discussion is academic, since there isn't much chance of it materializing, but maybe worth having anyway.

Last edited by fizbin; 2012-03-23 at 01:12.
  #23  
Old 2012-03-23, 01:26
selig's Avatar
selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
Why wouldn't you be able to convert to and from CV, which is little more than values on a scale similar to MIDI CC. There are frequently so many automatable parameters on a VST that you'd never be able to expose them all through CV. Theoretically, a user could select which parameters would be CV, and those would be exposed on the wrapper UI.

Not saying it's possible end to end, but really what is CV other than just a different way to control a knob on a linear scale?

I know this discussion is academic, since there isn't much chance of it materializing, but maybe worth having anyway.
The point for me is that Reason already has automation, AND it also has CV, while I know of no other audio platform that offers both. Automation is static (plays the same way every time), CVs are dynamic (they can be random, they can be non-synced LFOs, etc). Also CVs don't control the knobs (like automation or a Combinator), they control the parameter that is also controlled by at least one knob. Take pitch for example, when you control an oscillator's pitch you're not actually controlling the Oct knob, Semitone knob, or Fine Tune knob; you're controlling the internal pitch. CVs can also be used to control envelope times dynamically with velocity or use MIDI note number to control the panning, etc, all things that automation simply cannot do.

And THEN there's CV OUT from devices, which takes things to another level above other plugin formats!

I want both CV and automation control, and Reason is the only platform that gives me both. This has nothing to do with the addition of RE btw, as Reason has been this way from the start. :-)
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  #24  
Old 2012-03-23, 02:18
fizbin fizbin is offline
 
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OK, but with respect to a VST plug-in wrapped by an RE plug-in, your distinctions don't matter. If the RE wrapper can convert CV to plug-in automation (it should be able to), you can have your external random LFO's triggering VST parameters, in effect, through CV.

CV out from a VST plug-in would be a moot point. Since none have anything to send, there'd be nothing for the wrapper to do, so no implementation would be necessary.
  #25  
Old 2012-10-09, 22:56
slevin slevin is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHWood View Post
There's another thing that makes the standard VST (that is, a plug-in based on the VST standard) pale in comparison to a properly made Rack Extension: Control voltages.

The VST standard will allow audio to come from an instrument, through an effect VST, and out to the track or monitor in question, but there's little in the VST spec that lets, for example, one VST's LFO control parameters in another plug-in. Perhaps they can be synchronized, but some of the wildest effects come from modulating that LFO according to other things, like envelope followers and whatnot.

Some DAWs may have ways of approximating this (for instance, Live's "Instrument Rack" grouping mechanism has eight knobs, Combinator-style), but as far as I know nothing lets one e-device directly modulate the parameters of another e-device. If someone has counter-examples, I'd love to hear them, but I'm not at all sure they exist.

This is also why the Combinator is going to become a lot more important, not less so: The best way to keep devices together that use CVs to tweak each other is within a common super-device, preferably with its own controls, and the Combinator is it. Also consider that any audio or mix track is essentially a Combinator that has the ear of the master mixer, so that's a good way to get bunches of specialty devices easily into your track.

Truth!!! The Abl2 RE does not have pitch bend... problem? Not in Reason... just drop it in a Combi and there ya go! Abl2 with Pitch Bend
  #26  
Old 2012-10-10, 14:59
TheodoreM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
A quality check like "does it conform to the entire RE spec", for instance sending undo messages from host to plug-in...

There's no way to do that through the VST spec from what I understand. That's why VSTs, if they do have undo, are implemented in the VST UI, and undo from the host would have no effect on any VST settings. In other words, nothing to wrap here to implement this.
.
well that's incorrect, as as long as the plugin transmits it's parameters as automatable to a vst/au host, the host can implement undo if it chooses.

Ableton undoes everything precisely the way reason does.. it's worked for all 3rd party plugins i have tried so far and completely transparent. fader changes in ableton mixer, knob movements, and any changes on the plugin themselves, all undoes perfectly.
  #27  
Old 2012-10-10, 15:01
TheodoreM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizbin View Post
I think it's unlikely too, but I also think that the number of developers wanting to support yet another format (actually three more, mac and 32 and 64 bit for PC) when they are already supporting arguably too many, will be limited.
That's incorrect, RE's are platform compatible and automatically 32/64 bit.

they only need to make ONE version.

that is a HUGE advantage of RE's, if i am being truthful.
  #28  
Old 2012-10-10, 15:57
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Dave909 Dave909 is offline
 
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You are and it's an otherwise closed off (big) market. Only way to reach all those Reason users (excluding ReWire) is to port to RE.
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