Propellerhead Software
  #1  
Old 2012-10-30, 14:21
marcustoni marcustoni is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
Digital Timestamps on Reason files

Hello everyone.

I'm embroiled in a bit of a dispute regarding the creation of a piece of music. The problem is a simple one. I maintain that I created a piece of music using propellerhead software back in 2008 and the other party claims that it is his creation (also using propellerhead) since sometime this year (2012).

This could get messy if I don't find a solution to resolve the matter.

The Facts Are:
1.) The original of the piece I created using Reason 3 way back in the day. I've since gone on to upgrade to Reason 4 with Record 1, and now even to Reason 6 and the upgrade to Reason 6.02.
2.) For reason 3 files to be usable in Record 1, the files have to be converted to Record files; which i promptly did by importing them and saving them as record files.
3.) Since the Reason 3 files were from that point onwards of little use; I, of course, deleted them, since I had them in the new format which was now my workable property.
4.) When I then bought Reason 6; which now allowed me to open the record files i still had on record ... the resultant save files naturally had the most recent 'date created' timestamp; which of course negates my claim of the original date of creation of the files.
5.) To keep track of my works ... I use briefcasing to keep track of my progress ... and this in turn once again changes the date of creation to the most recent date (of my briefcase updating).

My question is ... how do I determine the proper timestamp for the created article from my reason files. When exactly was the file (older ones) created????????
I have since found some of the original Reason 3 creations ... but even they are only as recent as the time my system last crashed and had to be restored. . Fact is: only one of the reason 3 files is in dispute. The more current ones, viz. the Record 1 and Reason 6 files (creations) are a bigger point of contention.
What I have noticed is: even though I know that some files were created earlier ... they bear the digital timestamp of my last reinstallation of my system, because that is the time at which I copied them back into my system. A rather horrifyingly unsatisfactory result for me in my opinion.

Is there (as in Microsoft Office Documents) a more precise way of determining when a file was created in Properllerhead, that is more accurate than just looking at the properties of the file to see the created and modified dates of said file. There has to be a way, like with microsoft documents to get a more accurate timestamp on the file's digital signature.

If you are able to help me with my dilemma; please respond to this post. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly, in advance for your help.

P.S. Here is an example of the type of inconsistency in the digital timestamp about which I'm talking. Perhaps this helps your more in your endeavour to help me.

https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...1&d=1351604355

I would love for someone from the Propellerhead team of experts to address this issue and offer me some sort of help. Any kind of help would really do!!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Digital Timestamp Irregularity.jpg (86.5 KB, 9 views)

Last edited by marcustoni; 2012-10-30 at 17:25.
  #2  
Old 2012-10-30, 15:01
something something is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcustoni View Post
Hello everyone.

I'm embroiled in a bit of a dispute regarding the creation of a piece of music. The problem is a simple one. I maintain that I created a piece of music using propellerhead software back in 2008 and the other party claims that it is his creation (also using propellerhead) since sometime this year (2012).

This could get messy if I don't find a solution to resolve the matter.

The Facts Are:
1.) The original of the piece I created using Reason 3 way back in the day. I've since gone on to upgrade to Reason 4 with Record 1, and now even to Reason 6 and the upgrade to Reason 6.02.
2.) For reason 3 files to be usable in Record 1, the files have to be converted to Record files; which i promptly did by importing them and saving them as record files.
3.) Since the Reason 3 files were from that point onwards of little use; I, of course, deleted them, since I had them in the new format which was now my workable property.
4.) When I then bought Reason 6; which now allowed me to open the record files i still had on record ... the resultant save files naturally had the most recent 'date created' timestamp; which of course negates my claim of the original date of creation of the files.
5.) To keep track of my works ... I use briefcasing to keep track of my progress ... and this in turn once again changes the date of creation to the most recent date (of my briefcase updating).

My question is ... how do I determine the proper timestamp for the created article from my reason files. When exactly was the file (older ones) created????????
I have since found some of the original Reason 3 creations ... but even they are only as recent as the time my system last crashed and had to be restored. . Fact is: only one of the reason 3 files is in dispute. The more current ones, viz. the Record 1 and Reason 6 files (creations) are a bigger point of contention.
What I have noticed is: even though I know that some files were created earlier ... they bear the digital timestamp of my last reinstallation of my system, because that is the time at which I copied them back into my system. A rather horrifyingly unsatisfactory result for me in my opinion.

Is there (as in Microsoft Office Documents) a more precise way of determining when a file was created in Properllerhead, that is more accurate than just looking at the properties of the file to see the created and modified dates of said file. There has to be a way, like with microsoft documents to get a more accurate timestamp on the file's digital signature.

If you are able to help me with my dilemma; please respond to this post. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly, in advance for your help.

P.S. Here is an example of the type of inconsistency in the digital timestamp about which I'm talking. Perhaps this helps your more in your endeavour to help me.

https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...1&d=1351604355

In your image... the Date Modified is in 2011 while the Date Created is in 2012.
How can something be modified if it isn't even created?! :S
  #3  
Old 2012-10-30, 16:44
marcustoni marcustoni is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
That is exactly my point Something. Hence I'm here asking the people in the know for some help.

That is an exact image via printscreen of the properties of some random file. Crazy eh?!
  #4  
Old 2012-10-30, 16:50
something something is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcustoni View Post
That is exactly my point Something. Hence I'm here asking the people in the know for some help.

That is an exact image via printscreen of the properties of some random file. Crazy eh?!
Might be some info regarding date created/modified here http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=305353
  #5  
Old 2012-10-30, 17:23
marcustoni marcustoni is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 50
Thanks for that pointer Something. Those point they discuss there I do understand; and I know that that type of file digital timestamp behaviour is not caused by a virus of any nature, but is the rusult of copying and relocating files via a copy/paste regimen.
The problem occurs with all files copied and pasted. But ... for example ... with Microsoft office documents ... the same thing occurs; but ... you are able to ascertain the proper creation dates of files when you enter the properties of the file once you've opened the file.
Should you have created a document in some version of Microsofte Office, and you open the file ... in word for instance; when you open the file menu; the digital properties of the document are revealed on the right side of that window, with an accurate reflection of the creation and modification dates. This doesn't occur in most other documents of that nature, including Reason or Record files.
Therein lies the problem of the faulty digital signature.
 

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