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View Poll Results: Do u Guys "Agree" or "Disagree"
Agree 44 86.27%
Disagree 7 13.73%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #21  
Old 2012-11-08, 23:54
normen's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
I guessed props would already be looking into as they are a good company full of good people that just want the best for their users.
Maybe because it's still a new platform and as such it will evolve, props will learn from and correct any mistakes. I may not know much about programming but I know that sometimes you have to see what's wrong before you know what needs fixing and that's a general term that could relate to anything not just coding.
There is only one thing the props could fix: If the exact same C++ code runs slower after they compiled it compared to the VST version compiled by the company itself. Thats what they investigate and where nothing has been found until now it seems. Lets put the CPU-specific calls aside for now as they are a special topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
I never mentioned over-using effects so your mixing skills nor anyone else's were being brought into question, that's just completely off topic here. I said you probably use less devices than some people, It's not a question of anyones skill, it's just people work in different ways and use more instruments. I like to create ambient music and as such I might use a lot of instruments to create some weird effects that only appear once in the whole track.
You make assumptions about my workflow concerning effects, I will tell you about my workflow. Plus we talk about instance counts and DSP use.. Obviously its about how many effects one can use or did I get something wrong? If you indeed don't use everything at the same time you shouldn't get many overload issues either? Normally the effects that have no audio input should just turn themselves off. Make sure you don't have audio lanes where no audio is played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
just like I have to deal with tech-illiterates talking about software development <--- As for that comment, are you an expert in this field? were you always an expert? I doubt it. There was a time when you knew nothing and now you know something I guess the condescending attitude came for free?
People are just suggesting what they want, they might not be technically correct in what they say but you get the idea.
When I don't know about a topic I don't talk about it and especially don't demand things in that field from others who do, thats my whole point. I also didn't do so when I started out with music and audio tech and always liked to pull down the pants of people in the rehearsal room who were doing that ("This amp is great, it has iron transformers" -- "What do they do?" -- "I don't know" -- "LOL")

I mean whats the point? The best thing that can happen is that somebody comes along and knows better than you and you have to either get angry at him to keep your fantasy world intact or remove all that useless "knowledge" you made up in your head.

Edit: For example, you *cannot* do a production with 24 high-quality amp simulations on a single computer. Its impossible. Now if somebody comes and says "I cannot instantiate 24 of your FX, this sucks" what do you do? Make the effect use less CPU and hence sound.. at least different..? Or try telling the user its just like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljekio View Post
The link doesn't work but I guess you linked to the first or second post. Its true some just talk about the workflow and maybe I over-reacted a bit but if the discussion was kept to the actual usability examples then it would certainly be most efficient also in achieving what it apparently wants

"RE's have a CPU problem" is no valid comment from your/our side. "I cannot do a song with two tsars and six predators" is and its very specifically testable and comparable.
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Last edited by normen; 2012-11-09 at 00:01.
  #22  
Old 2012-11-09, 00:01
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Quote:
The link doesn't work but I guess you linked to the first or second post.
You are mistaken, it was another thread.
  #23  
Old 2012-11-09, 00:02
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normen normen is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ljekio View Post
You are mistaken, it was other thread.
Idk, I get this: http://i.imgur.com/eCXCc.png
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  #24  
Old 2012-11-09, 00:27
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VillaNDubstep VillaNDubstep is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhansen View Post
There is only one thing the props could fix: If the exact same C++ code runs slower after they compiled it compared to the VST version compiled by the company itself. Thats what they investigate and where nothing has been found until now it seems. Lets put the CPU-specific calls aside for now as they are a special topic.
I'm not trying to compare RE's to Vst, i was just stating (in my first post) that I would like to see RE's be more DSP friendly so that I can use more effects, instruments etc.. without worrying about overloading and reaching max DSP which affects projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhansen View Post
You make assumptions about my workflow concerning effects, I will tell you about my workflow. Plus we talk about instance counts and DSP use.. Obviously its about how many effects one can use or did I get something wrong? If you indeed don't use everything at the same time you shouldn't get many overload issues either? Normally the effects that have no audio input should just turn themselves off. Make sure you don't have audio lanes where no audio is played.
Not trying to cause you any offence here, I was just saying that in general everyone has their own workflow and some people use more devices in projects than others. I'm not just talking about effects but devices in general, wether they be instruments or effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhansen View Post
When I don't know about a topic I don't talk about it and especially don't demand things in that field from others who do, thats my whole point. I also didn't do so when I started out with music and audio tech and always liked to pull down the pants of people in the rehearsal room who were doing that ("This amp is great, it has iron transformers" -- "What do they do?" -- "I don't know" -- "LOL")
But we suggest and then it's down to propellerheads to work out if it is possible. I agree I have little knowledge about coding and such but I do want to start learning some day.
What you describe there anyway I don't think applies to me, I haven't demanded anything. I had a problem the other week with a project becoming unplayable but it wasn't that big of a project and I wouldn't like to see that happen again so I was just supporting the idea of better DSP usage overall without getting into the specifics.

Anyway, I didn't make anything up and i'm not angry at anyone for knowing more than me on some subjects. I just didn't agree with the way you replied to people and was also trying to explain some things a little better.
All that aside I think I've ironed out any confusion or misunderstandings, hopefully without creating any more issues.
  #25  
Old 2012-11-09, 00:54
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normen normen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
I'm not trying to compare RE's to Vst, i was just stating (in my first post) that I would like to see RE's be more DSP friendly so that I can use more effects, instruments etc.. without worrying about overloading and reaching max DSP which affects projects.
Yes, thats okay. I realize I sounded a bit too aggressive, sorry. But in fact its a bit mean to demand that from the props and say "REs in general need to use less CPU". As said, some will always need to use a lot of CPU to sound like they should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
Not trying to cause you any offence here, I was just saying that in general everyone has their own workflow and some people use more devices in projects than others. I'm not just talking about effects but devices in general, wether they be instruments or effects.
I wasn't offended, just startled by how my response to the workflow topic made you think I was being condescendent (again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
But we suggest and then it's down to propellerheads to work out if it is possible. I agree I have little knowledge about coding and such but I do want to start learning some day.
What you describe there anyway I don't think applies to me, I haven't demanded anything. I had a problem the other week with a project becoming unplayable but it wasn't that big of a project and I wouldn't like to see that happen again so I was just supporting the idea of better DSP usage overall without getting into the specifics.
Yeah, see above. Its a thin line between asking somebody about a problem and blaming him (unjustified). I react a bit allergic to demands with no basis whatsoever, I am infamous among directors at our house for demanding a proper explanation for something that is demanded from me

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
Anyway, I didn't make anything up and i'm not angry at anyone for knowing more than me on some subjects. I just didn't agree with the way you replied to people and was also trying to explain some things a little better.
All that aside I think I've ironed out any confusion or misunderstandings, hopefully without creating any more issues.
Yes, in fact this thread was more civil in these terms that I'd have expected, normally this kind of headline attracts the kind of people I could use for my favorite torture method I threaten to apply on my colleagues

Oh what it is? Well.. theres certain kinds of people. You know those who just click around in their windows system, mess everything up, read some article and then mess up more. When you stand next to them you always wanna go "No, not that... Why did you delete that..? What the heck, why? No! Not the..! OMG.." You know? So the torture would be: You are sitting tied next to him for a full day, having to see him doing stuff on his computer all day and you are invisible and he cannot hear you.

Sorry, I am an engineer, I like to complain about fixing stuff but I would be bored to death if there was no stuff to fix
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  #26  
Old 2012-11-09, 08:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VillaNDubstep View Post
I have to agree with this thread but I am sure props are doing everything they can to improve this. I look forward to not having to worry about what RE's I use or that if i add one more effect the project will become unstable.
I don't have too many issues but mainly because I have bought some RE's that are pretty good with DSP, All though I did have some trouble with etch red a couple weeks ago by where 5 instances maxed it all out and i couldn't continue because of the pops and crackles. I should mention that was in 32bit mode (didn't realise) and since re-enabling 64 bit mode I've had no troubles so far.
I want to buy predator but first i think i shall see how many instances of that i can use in a blank project, I've heard it's a beast on DSP
These RE's are awesome man they feel like they blend in well with in Reason they really do!! I hope this comes true for Christmas maybe!?
  #27  
Old 2012-11-11, 10:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhansen View Post
All you guys have no idea of the topic at hand. You could not even remotely describe correctly what change you want. How about users care about the usability and developers care about the code?
I see where ur coming from when u say ur an engineer and that it would be boring if there was nothing to fix. What i think is that the PH's are holding back on the issue on making Reason run efficiently with Multi Cores! They seem to be in a verge of creating that dream come true for us but will not tell us until they feel that special moment is right.
  #28  
Old 2012-11-11, 11:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmj85 View Post
I see where ur coming from when u say ur an engineer and that it would be boring if there was nothing to fix. What i think is that the PH's are holding back on the issue on making Reason run efficiently with Multi Cores! They seem to be in a verge of creating that dream come true for us but will not tell us until they feel that special moment is right.
Thats very hard to do generally as Reason has one global signal flow and needs to get all samples out within (buffer size) time. Also no DAW really has live multithreading. If you put e.g. Logics channels in "live mode" (so that its comparable to Reason) Logic also only uses one CPU. They can "cheat" cause every channel is a separate "universe" that can be pre-computed, multithreaded, even sent to another computer to be computed there. So only if the single plugins/effects have a chance to multithread efficiently internally they will benefit, not much Reason per se can do there unless it checks your signal flow and makes the threading dependent on interconnections. In that case the distribution across CPU cores would be quite unpredictable and for some setups it would never happen.
Think about it: the signal flow is sequential, each device first has to compute the sound, then the next device has to compute on top of that, not much one can do in parallel there
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Plugin latency issues? Phasing on parallel channels? Want to know the real latency of your audio interface? Try the VMG-01!
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  #29  
Old 2013-08-23, 21:24
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mmj85 mmj85 is offline
 
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I am a fan of your RE first off
I am sure the props are working on something big soon about the issue at hand.. Like they said" the tricky problem is to make reason work with more and more cores in the futur"
I have faith this problem will be put to rest soon!
I love my reason and to the props ill say this:
let me be creative as what my limit is with out caring of any other limit this wonderful program might have
  #30  
Old 2013-08-24, 09:17
JensenTNI JensenTNI is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboy1973 View Post
But is the SDK to blame or is it the code developers are putting into it? Predator (for example) is a pretty hungry beast at the best of times. Can changes to the SDK male a difference in this type of situation?
u-he actually said so a few months ago when I specifically asked them why their RE's are so CPU demanding

Oh just saw this was an ancient post, hahaha...
 

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