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  #11  
Old 2012-11-20, 19:18
BHKSamples's Avatar
BHKSamples BHKSamples is offline
 
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well, a few years ago, arround summertime, i have count all the views of two of our packs on diffrent warez sites. Ok not every view is a download, but all together the result was almost 800.000 potencial illegal downloads, i have stop to count ! So i have immediatly send abuse reports to the sharehoster, but a few days after the links were removed, new ones appearing. And it was a back and forth for weeks. But all this has not affect the sales, they become even more. And people still come back to us to buy the license for packs they pirated before for what ever reasons.

The biggest problems began with the download rewards of the fileshare hoster.

A new profit orientated group of uploaders came up (the parasit). They work with diffrent accounts and usernames on diffrent warez size. To make you think there are a lot persons providing pirated stuff.

They make good rewards money, enough to have a living from and to buy the newest releases to make more money. And they upload everthing, not just software and soundware !

And yeah most company's weekly releases makes it easy for them. They buy up to 20 or even more packs on diffrent distributers weekly. They know everyone wants the newest stuff.

But you can be sure, some filehosters already stop their reward program, and when all others do, this group of uploaders will dissapear completly. These people are psychopaths, they know it's wrong what they do, but they have no empathy, so as long as they get what they want they don't care about anything.
Downloaders, doesen't matter what kind off, are forced to support these parasits in form off payed pro accounts and regular downloads.

The most downloaders generally don't upload again what they pirated, expect those people who just looking for some community fame !

The real robin hoods are sharing in a peer to peer system and will stay, but you won't get the newest stuff two day's after release anymore and then you have to wait weeks or even months until someone has mercy !

Downloaders do damage only when they could "easily" afford what they pirated, liking & using it and never will be willing to pay for !

Those who downloading because they just can't afford now, these are all potencial costumers !

But some will never, cause they live in a country they happy enough they get a outranged computer working and have at least internet access in exceptional circumstances.

But i think to get more of the customers which are willing to pay ,but hesitate, every sound company should offer a refund warranty.
I mean everyone of us have make bad experiences with buying soundstuff and have to live with, because they are not refundable.

A nice democlip and a few demo samples is not enough to get sure this is the source i need.

And people who want's to check the product before, can use the warranty instead a illegal download link !
And those who wants to abuse this offer will maybe think twice, and accept the payment because the pack is really good. And when not then he has pirated it from you and not from a parasit and can enjoy his shabby victory.

Times have change, so we need to think about another solutions, just fighting against piracy won't help. Those who want it strictly for free will find a way anyway anytime !
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Last edited by BHKSamples; 2012-11-20 at 22:27.
  #12  
Old 2012-11-21, 15:45
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OMOMs OMOMs is offline
 
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Posts: 1,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHKSamples View Post
well, a few years ago, arround summertime, i have count all the views of two of our packs on diffrent warez sites. Ok not every view is a download, but all together the result was almost 800.000 potencial illegal downloads, i have stop to count ! So i have immediatly send abuse reports to the sharehoster, but a few days after the links were removed, new ones appearing. And it was a back and forth for weeks. But all this has not affect the sales, they become even more. And people still come back to us to buy the license for packs they pirated before for what ever reasons.

The biggest problems began with the download rewards of the fileshare hoster.

A new profit orientated group of uploaders came up (the parasit). They work with diffrent accounts and usernames on diffrent warez size. To make you think there are a lot persons providing pirated stuff.

They make good rewards money, enough to have a living from and to buy the newest releases to make more money. And they upload everthing, not just software and soundware !

And yeah most company's weekly releases makes it easy for them. They buy up to 20 or even more packs on diffrent distributers weekly. They know everyone wants the newest stuff.

But you can be sure, some filehosters already stop their reward program, and when all others do, this group of uploaders will dissapear completly. These people are psychopaths, they know it's wrong what they do, but they have no empathy, so as long as they get what they want they don't care about anything.
Downloaders, doesen't matter what kind off, are forced to support these parasits in form off payed pro accounts and regular downloads.

The most downloaders generally don't upload again what they pirated, expect those people who just looking for some community fame !

The real robin hoods are sharing in a peer to peer system and will stay, but you won't get the newest stuff two day's after release anymore and then you have to wait weeks or even months until someone has mercy !

Downloaders do damage only when they could "easily" afford what they pirated, liking & using it and never will be willing to pay for !

Those who downloading because they just can't afford now, these are all potencial costumers !

But some will never, cause they live in a country they happy enough they get a outranged computer working and have at least internet access in exceptional circumstances.

But i think to get more of the customers which are willing to pay ,but hesitate, every sound company should offer a refund warranty.
I mean everyone of us have make bad experiences with buying soundstuff and have to live with, because they are not refundable.

A nice democlip and a few demo samples is not enough to get sure this is the source i need.

And people who want's to check the product before, can use the warranty instead a illegal download link !
And those who wants to abuse this offer will maybe think twice, and accept the payment because the pack is really good. And when not then he has pirated it from you and not from a parasit and can enjoy his shabby victory.

Times have change, so we need to think about another solutions, just fighting against piracy won't help. Those who want it strictly for free will find a way anyway anytime !
I don't want to become overly political because this is a music forum after all, but the Internet makes it really hard to get rid of piracy at all.
I believe it is time for a system change in the big way. Get rid of our banking system alltogether, for abundance can not be errected on debts. If you try and do that you will only be able to create wealth at the expense of others.
The USA is considered a rich country, but they errected their 'wealth' at the expense of slaves. Actual persons have been exploited big way. And still this is happening all the time.
A society that bases their 'wealth' on lack must depend on lies, in order to sell the lack as wealth (it's called marketing). If your society depends on lies, how can you make honest business? If you can't make honest business, how can you stop pirates?
I do not think piracy is justifiable in many cases, but I also do not think the way capitalism is being practiced is that different from piracy.
Of course it is really sad for the guys at nine volt audio, same as anyone else who's stuff is pirated, but after all, those suffering from piracy as well as those practicing it, are victims of capitalism after all.
Wanna get rid of piracy?
Get rid of Banks, debts and capitalism!

Sorry for the rant, but I feel empathy will go all the way, if it can.
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fredhoven
  #13  
Old 2012-11-21, 16:53
mac0123's Avatar
mac0123 mac0123 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMOMs View Post
I don't want to become overly political because this is a music forum after all, but the Internet makes it really hard to get rid of piracy at all.
I believe it is time for a system change in the big way. Get rid of our banking system alltogether, for abundance can not be errected on debts. If you try and do that you will only be able to create wealth at the expense of others.
The USA is considered a rich country, but they errected their 'wealth' at the expense of slaves. Actual persons have been exploited big way. And still this is happening all the time.
A society that bases their 'wealth' on lack must depend on lies, in order to sell the lack as wealth (it's called marketing). If your society depends on lies, how can you make honest business? If you can't make honest business, how can you stop pirates?
I do not think piracy is justifiable in many cases, but I also do not think the way capitalism is being practiced is that different from piracy.
Of course it is really sad for the guys at nine volt audio, same as anyone else who's stuff is pirated, but after all, those suffering from piracy as well as those practicing it, are victims of capitalism after all.
Wanna get rid of piracy?
Get rid of Banks, debts and capitalism!

Sorry for the rant, but I feel empathy will go all the way, if it can.
wow someone whos eyes are opened to the reality of a fascist police state that exists the world over world governement is immenant and you all worry about piracy lol .
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  #14  
Old 2012-11-21, 18:00
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OMOMs OMOMs is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac0123 View Post
wow someone whos eyes are opened to the reality of a fascist police state that exists the world over world governement is immenant and you all worry about piracy lol .
actually piracy is something I'm not really worried about
Actually about 90% of what I'm doing is stuff I love, so there's nothing really to worry about for me at least.
See: Since this society is no society worth fighting for, I wouldn't consider it worthy to fight against. I simply create my own ^^
I simply prefer a different kind of reality. People share and love in my world. Call me a hippy or something, I don't care, because my life is just great
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fredhoven
  #15  
Old 2012-11-21, 19:21
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superpatou superpatou is offline
 
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Posts: 1,878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMOMs View Post
I don't want to become overly political because this is a music forum after all, but the Internet makes it really hard to get rid of piracy at all.
I believe it is time for a system change in the big way. Get rid of our banking system alltogether, for abundance can not be errected on debts. If you try and do that you will only be able to create wealth at the expense of others.
The USA is considered a rich country, but they errected their 'wealth' at the expense of slaves. Actual persons have been exploited big way. And still this is happening all the time.
A society that bases their 'wealth' on lack must depend on lies, in order to sell the lack as wealth (it's called marketing). If your society depends on lies, how can you make honest business? If you can't make honest business, how can you stop pirates?
I do not think piracy is justifiable in many cases, but I also do not think the way capitalism is being practiced is that different from piracy.
Of course it is really sad for the guys at nine volt audio, same as anyone else who's stuff is pirated, but after all, those suffering from piracy as well as those practicing it, are victims of capitalism after all.
Wanna get rid of piracy?
Get rid of Banks, debts and capitalism!

Sorry for the rant, but I feel empathy will go all the way, if it can.

Can you name one major civilization/empire/society in Europe or on the African Continent or in Asia or anywhere that became successful for many centuries without slavery or exploitation or war or economical domination of its neighbor? the USA is what HOT now but the way people think it could collapse from within and be replaced by something else one day. nothing is forever and ever.

But I understand it feels good to point the finger while pirating away. I mean if those developers could stop making babies they could stop complaining about their need to buy expensive formulas and diapers and feed their family from evil companies... I am sure it is their fault some how...
  #16  
Old 2012-11-21, 19:59
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platzangst platzangst is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMOMs View Post
Get rid of Banks, debts and capitalism!
And replace them with what, exactly?

It's fine to blame the system - because it certainly is a flawed system - but without a workable replacement in mind, one might as well as be complaining that we are all slaves to food and oxygen. And as long as there is a person who does not care to just give away their goods or services without anything in return, there will always be capitalism.
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  #17  
Old 2012-11-21, 20:14
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OMOMs OMOMs is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superpatou View Post
Can you name one major civilization/empire/society in Europe or on the African Continent or in Asia or anywhere that became successful for many centuries without slavery or exploitation or war or economical domination of its neighbor? the USA is what HOT now but the way people think it could collapse from within and be replaced by something else one day. nothing is forever and ever.

But I understand it feels good to point the finger while pirating away. I mean if those developers could stop making babies they could stop complaining about their need to buy expensive formulas and diapers and feed their family from evil companies... I am sure it is their fault some how...
I believe it heavily depends on your definition of success. From my definition of success, I can say that there have been many societies especially in South America, who actually did live peacefully within their society.

I'm not asking for world peace (while I would certainly enjoy it), for I believe it won't happen within the current paradigm of competition and lack.
And don't get me wrong, I don't believe piracy is a good thing at all, but in my opinion, piracy is not only the unauthorized copying of 'intellectual property' but also the exploitation of people's lives and nature's resources.

Also I'm not going against USA here, cause I'm from Germany and there's lots of BS happening here aswell as in most (probably all) other countries. I was just taking it as an example for how exploitation isn't good, in whatever way you utilize it. I equally could have chosen the Roman Empire.

I believe if you give away your stuff for free and offer a donation link, some people will like it so much they'll pay something. But thats mainly about music and writing. I've never made software, so I don't know anything about the actual process. And again I don't think you should pirate at all, but if you eat an apple, sow the seeds.

sorry if you felt offended, it was certainly not my intent.
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fredhoven
  #18  
Old 2012-11-21, 20:24
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OMOMs OMOMs is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platzangst View Post
And replace them with what, exactly?

It's fine to blame the system - because it certainly is a flawed system - but without a workable replacement in mind, one might as well as be complaining that we are all slaves to food and oxygen. And as long as there is a person who does not care to just give away their goods or services without anything in return, there will always be capitalism.
I don't know yet what to replace them with just yet, that's why I'm experimenting.
while I agree with your idea on some level, I believe it is not empirically true (just like most of my statements btw).
Only as long as the persons who don't want to share, are granted more "power" that others, will that be the case.
if you're interested: here's an approach to society.
It's not perfect yet, but they're improving all the time

Also the venus project has some interesting ideas on the matter (though I don't like their way of propagating)
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fredhoven
  #19  
Old 2012-11-21, 20:41
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superpatou superpatou is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platzangst View Post
And replace them with what, exactly?

It's fine to blame the system - because it certainly is a flawed system - but without a workable replacement in mind, one might as well as be complaining that we are all slaves to food and oxygen. And as long as there is a person who does not care to just give away their goods or services without anything in return, there will always be capitalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMOMs View Post
I believe it heavily depends on your definition of success. From my definition of success, I can say that there have been many societies especially in South America, who actually did live peacefully within their society.

I'm not asking for world peace (while I would certainly enjoy it), for I believe it won't happen within the current paradigm of competition and lack.
And don't get me wrong, I don't believe piracy is a good thing at all, but in my opinion, piracy is not only the unauthorized copying of 'intellectual property' but also the exploitation of people's lives and nature's resources.

Also I'm not going against USA here, cause I'm from Germany and there's lots of BS happening here aswell as in most (probably all) other countries. I was just taking it as an example for how exploitation isn't good, in whatever way you utilize it. I equally could have chosen the Roman Empire.

I believe if you give away your stuff for free and offer a donation link, some people will like it so much they'll pay something. But thats mainly about music and writing. I've never made software, so I don't know anything about the actual process. And again I don't think you should pirate at all, but if you eat an apple, sow the seeds.

sorry if you felt offended, it was certainly not my intent.
HAHA! Relax dude! first this is the internet and then you are a Reason user: 2 reasons I will never be offended by you or any other. It is a waste of time to be mad on any forum.

Everything you could imagine a society could have been was tried before. Everything. Beside a lack of hygiene (based only on our 21st century standard) or tools we were the same 3000 years ago. Everything good you could imagine happened before and is still happening. The human nature forces us to believe the exact reversal was and is still true. every time someone says "Hey! let me help!" we have to assume there is someone else at the opposite end of the equation looking for exploiting a situation and get away with it.
No need to go geopolitical and go back 1000 of years for examples. We have the perfect example with Reason and the need to have a dongle. For 1000 of (software) years they was no true protection in Reason. In about a few alta vista/hotbot/google clicks you could find a way to use it and never look back. Either the Props were looking at the cat and mouse game with Steinberg and H2O for many years or they "forced" people to use cracked Reason like drug dealers with free samples then BAM! Locked all of us down for good like slaves!
Or maybe the Props are cool ppl trying to use capitalism to their benefit and the benefits of their employees and family with a long term vision to keep food on the table everyday producing stuff we like?
  #20  
Old 2012-11-21, 21:03
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superpatou superpatou is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMOMs View Post
I don't know yet what to replace them with just yet, that's why I'm experimenting.
while I agree with your idea on some level, I believe it is not empirically true (just like most of my statements btw).
Only as long as the persons who don't want to share, are granted more "power" that others, will that be the case.
if you're interested: here's an approach to society.
It's not perfect yet, but they're improving all the time

Also the venus project has some interesting ideas on the matter (though I don't like their way of propagating)

I love the Venus Project. I just pray this will never ever happen for real :-) And i have watched that movie many times.
The guy is a true genius but his vision is the vision of a technician and not a a sociologist. His equation is based on the fact all of his humans will behave the same all the time. I do not remember places for children to run around free, nor places for people to tag walls and make graffiti on the doors of super fast lifts... His vision is based on his character and experience of life through is own eyes. So it is a very cold world were fashion is pretty much unisex and people eat the same food most of the time. Every time I went to Disney World in FL I remember it as almost a Venus project but for fun. I love, love this place. Can I see myself and my family waking up to that world every day for the rest of my life? most people would commit suicide and i believe this is what a Venus project would do on the mind of many, unless they use heavy dose or reconditioning through medication to keep everyone happy all the time...
 

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