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  #21  
Old 2012-12-04, 17:43
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platzangst platzangst is offline
 
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Originally Posted by devilfish View Post
if we pull down the master fader, to have no clipping on the DA-Converters..
we reduce also the RMS-Power of the track, or?
Well, that's why everybody uses maximizers and compression, to bring the RMS back up without clipping.

If you play a CD that was actually mastered in the '80s, its volume will sound much softer than most of today's music. This is because they did not use much compression: they simply ran their masters into the digital recorders as is, fixing the album's highest peak at 0db and letting everything else be however lower than that it naturally was.

Then, over time, in order to make albums sound louder, more and more compression was used to bring the RMS level up, until now everybody expects that level of loudness from everything (instead of, you know, turning the volume up on the players).
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  #22  
Old 2012-12-04, 18:43
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parachutes View Post
I have a lot of clips in reason in my mixes. im still new to the whole mixing process, so im figuring it out. my question is that when i send my mixes to get mastered, do the clips create a problem? would the engineers send them back and be like 'we cant master with clips'?
Some Mastering Engineers actually do Clip audio though (to compete in the loudness war). A lot of it probably depend on the style of music you you though. And actually one VST I have (Elephant) actually have a clip mode. It is used with a combination of high oversampling to produce a smoother clip though but still it is very aggressive. I find in some cases though it can produce the best results for some of my music.

At the mixing stage though I wouldn't try to clip anything on the master fader level. (Unless you specifically want it for some reason).

It you do clip it, just like others said reduce the master fader by a few db or so usually fixes the issue.

I always check my exports after I bounce as well for clips that I might have missed. I find that it is usually better to use dedicated maximizers such as Ozone or Elephant to get your loudness maximized.

Last edited by jlgrimes; 2012-12-04 at 18:45.
  #23  
Old 2012-12-04, 18:53
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devilfish devilfish is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platzangst View Post
Well, that's why everybody uses maximizers and compression, to bring the RMS back up without clipping.

If you play a CD that was actually mastered in the '80s, its volume will sound much softer than most of today's music. This is because they did not use much compression: they simply ran their masters into the digital recorders as is, fixing the album's highest peak at 0db and letting everything else be however lower than that it naturally was.

Then, over time, in order to make albums sound louder, more and more compression was used to bring the RMS level up, until now everybody expects that level of loudness from everything (instead of, you know, turning the volume up on the players).

here we are...
we reduce the RMS to bring it back with a conpressor..

the compressor makes the signal louder.. give the material more or even less dynamic..

if i had recorded a voice which is very silent and push up the volume..
what is happend?
the noise will be louder.. the signal to noise ratio will be much less than before..
at the same time we fill unused bits with ...
mhh what does we fill in ?? air??
i think we add distortion by that way with the compressor..
is it possible to conjure something that was never there?
volume increase is in principle like a time stretch.. (make the wave file longer, or to fill unused bits) ??


so and what is with our track now??
the track with the pulled down master fader to reduce clipping,.. ??
and the compressor behind the fader..

i know what selig would like to teach me..
but i'm still thinking there is a bug.. btw this is not good wirh the fader
the compressor does only manage the error we create with the pull down fader, because of the clipping
and i have learned another rule..
make it right from the OSC up to complete track..

I stick to it:
dont touch the master fader!

sorry for my english.. it is very hard for me to explain what i think about that

another example:

We have 6 Signals on the SSL mixer

Signal A
B
C
D
E
& F

so .. Signal F and C are the problems we get the clipping in our Master Bus..
We pull down the Master-Fader and use a compressor or limiter to raise the RMS back..
good what?
why we do not manage the Signals F & C individually ?? to prevent the clipping?
No we are lazy and pull down the Master fader and compress all the signals A-F ..
but Signal A/B/D/E does not require the compressor..

i think this is not the right way.. sorry.

Last edited by devilfish; 2012-12-04 at 19:20.
  #24  
Old 2012-12-04, 19:04
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platzangst platzangst is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfish View Post
i know what selig would like to learn me..
but i'm still thinking there is a bug.. btw this is not good wirh the fader
the compressor does only manage the error we create with the pull down fader..
This isn't a "bug", it's the way any digital recording is going to work. It is a limitation of the medium.

Digital is not like tape. With tape, you can push levels high and get a natural kind of saturation in the signal. With digital, once you cross 0db, your peaks are cut off harsh and flat like a razor. The only difference in DAWs is how much artificial room they programmed into the virtual mixer for safety, or whether there's already some kind of software limiting feature in place.

If anything is a "bug", it's the need of producers to make everything louder louder louder at the expense of dynamic range. But that's something that will only change if producers and customers change their minds and buying habits.
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  #25  
Old 2012-12-04, 19:38
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devilfish devilfish is offline
 
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well ..

as I said, I do not know....
But I will not do it anyway...
that's kinda not logical to me...

Doing something quieter (pull the fader down), because I have made ​​a mistake.
and then I use a tool (comp/limiter) to get away from this error ...
and to top it all I still affects some signals that have nothing to do with the Problem..

I make music now.
That's all too complicated for me..
  #26  
Old 2012-12-04, 19:47
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platzangst platzangst is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devilfish View Post
so .. Signal F and C are the problems we get the clipping in our Master Bus..
We pull down the Master-Fader and use a compressor or limiter to raise the RMS back..
good what?
why we do not manage the Signals F & C individually ?? to prevent the clipping?
No we are lazy and pull down the Master fader and compress all the signals A-F ..
but Signal A/B/D/E does not require the compressor..
You could do it either way. Suppose you liked the way that the entire mix sounds, just the way it is - except it clips. What to do? If you adjust only F & C, you might change how they fit inside the mix. If you wish to preserve the overall mix, you then must lower the master level to avoid clipping. If you then want to restore some loudness, you will need to add limiting and/or compression. Yes, this might color the sound. But it is up to you which you prefer. Some may want to go one way, some the other.
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