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  #21  
Old 2012-12-21, 21:50
selig's Avatar
selig selig is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bozotoo View Post
Certainly many or even most would like a polyphonic modular system. But if even if a modular was "mono" that would not be a deal killer at all. I used to work for Roland, as the U.S. product specialist for the system 700 and 100M as well as the Microcomposer. I also worked for Serge building modular systems when the "factory" was in Hollywood and for Wavemakers (another defunct modular instrument maker) as they tried to move into the mainstream market. So I definately have my own biases.

But the simple fact is, any good modular is, by definition, "polyphoic" (in the sense of being able to produce more than one note at a time) as well as being polytimbral. A large enough modular can produce multiple different voices (depending on how many VCAs there are to articulate a voice). Its just that you cannot necessarily get polyphonic AND polytimbral out of every voice/module chain. But that is not really the main reason for having a modular system. That kind of thing is MUCH better (and much more easily) done with the pre-patched and semi-modular systems such as the Subtractor and the Thor.

Secondly, there is already a redundancy in polyphonic/keyboard-oriented synthesizers in Reason. That includes the semi-modular Thor which, with its modulation matrix can do most of what any polyphoic modular would do. That box is pretty much already checked. I don't mean to say that a true-polyphonic/true modular is a bad idea -just that the polyphonic (in the conventional keyboard sense) aspect should be secondary and should most certainly not stop someone from developing the modular system to begin with.

What we need in a modular system in Reason is something that takes full advantage of the creative and even whacky voice architecture you can construct with a true modular AND that can be integrated with the rest of Reason. Also, we need something that can go BEYOND the standard piano keyboard and all the limitations that places on us. Granted, most muscicians want a piano style keyboard on their synthesizer. But again, we already have SEVERAL of those. It seems to me that the best aspect of a true modular would be to open up totally NEW possibilities, not just make it more difficult to do the same thing that other instruments can already do.



-BH

.
+1

Hey, talk to your buddies at Roland and get them to do the system 700 and 100M for REs. I remember literally drooling over those brochures as a kid in High School!

For me I want to see poly CV AND poly voice interconnects in Reason. Then you really could build your own synth. Poly CV is easy since we already have a CV interface - just need to support poly gate really. Poly voice would require a new interconnect protocol/cable IMO. But if those were in place you could literally mix-n-match any part of any synth with any other. Use Samples from NN-XT going through Thor's filters, and modulated by Malstrom's "Mods", with a poly limiter placed after the filters to control resonance. One can dream… :-)
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  #22  
Old 2012-12-21, 22:02
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devilfish devilfish is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozotoo View Post
Certainly many or even most would like a polyphonic modular system. But if even if a modular was "mono" that would not be a deal killer at all. I used to work for Roland, as the U.S. product specialist for the system 700 and 100M as well as the Microcomposer. I also worked for Serge building modular systems when the "factory" was in Hollywood and for Wavemakers (another defunct modular instrument maker) as they tried to move into the mainstream market. So I definately have my own biases.

But the simple fact is, any good modular is, by definition, "polyphoic" (in the sense of being able to produce more than one note at a time) as well as being polytimbral. A large enough modular can produce multiple different voices (depending on how many VCAs there are to articulate a voice). Its just that you cannot necessarily get polyphonic AND polytimbral out of every voice/module chain. But that is not really the main reason for having a modular system. That kind of thing is MUCH better (and much more easily) done with the pre-patched and semi-modular systems such as the Subtractor and the Thor.

Secondly, there is already a redundancy in polyphonic/keyboard-oriented synthesizers in Reason. That includes the semi-modular Thor which, with its modulation matrix can do most of what any polyphoic modular would do. That box is pretty much already checked. I don't mean to say that a true-polyphonic/true modular is a bad idea -just that the polyphonic (in the conventional keyboard sense) aspect should be secondary and should most certainly not stop someone from developing the modular system to begin with.

What we need in a modular system in Reason is something that takes full advantage of the creative and even whacky voice architecture you can construct with a true modular AND that can be integrated with the rest of Reason. Also, we need something that can go BEYOND the standard piano keyboard and all the limitations that places on us. Granted, most muscicians want a piano style keyboard on their synthesizer. But again, we already have SEVERAL of those. It seems to me that the best aspect of a true modular would be to open up totally NEW possibilities, not just make it more difficult to do the same thing that other instruments can already do.



-BH

.
exactly... that's the Point
  #23  
Old 2012-12-21, 22:14
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JohannEmmanuel JohannEmmanuel is offline
 
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Props should allow developers some more room for GUI modifications which are better suited to such a format.
If they added a "lunchbox" extension in the right click menu, developers could develop modular sized panels too fit into the empty slots of such a lunchbox.

Like the arturia origin but in nicer , prettier reason orientated format
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  #24  
Old 2012-12-22, 02:09
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohannEmmanuel View Post
Props should allow developers some more room for GUI modifications which are better suited to such a format.
If they added a "lunchbox" extension in the right click menu, developers could develop modular sized panels too fit into the empty slots of such a lunchbox.

Like the arturia origin but in nicer , prettier reason orientated format
Sounds a bit like my ReRack idea, where you could start with an empty "500 series" type rack and add up to 16 modules.

The difference now is that with REs you can have 3rd party modules. This would be a bit complicated to create since it would require yet another 'standard' for GUIs in Reason, but it's certainly doable IMO.

Benefits that I was touting at that time are still valid - poly CV and audio interchange between modules, MBRS interface for routing (not shown), audio-rate CV control, etc.

This isn't a device that could be built as an RE, as it would have to be built into Reason since it goes beyond what REs can currently do. RE developers would simply have another outlet for various modules, just like hardware developers do for the 500 series racks vs 19" rack designs. :-)

More here, if interested:
https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...4&postcount=41
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  #25  
Old 2012-12-22, 03:02
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JohannEmmanuel JohannEmmanuel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post

This isn't a device that could be built as an RE, as it would have to be built into Reason since it goes beyond what REs can currently do. RE developers would simply have another outlet for various modules, just like hardware developers do for the 500 series racks vs 19" rack designs. :-)
Agree with you,

It makes sense to continue with the tradition of mimicking a real world studio. I think they are almost ready too do it, kong has some kinda "nod" towards it. You know them, if you have thought of it,they are either doing it or have done somthing you didnt think of and its better anyway. Like the ssl mixer as an example:P
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  #26  
Old 2012-12-22, 16:29
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bjoeri bjoeri is offline
 
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Thumbs up

I totally see your point about polyphonic CV and voice connections. Would take modularity to a new level IMHO. Have this specific feature been suggested before?

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
+1

For me I want to see poly CV AND poly voice interconnects in Reason. Then you really could build your own synth. Poly CV is easy since we already have a CV interface - just need to support poly gate really. Poly voice would require a new interconnect protocol/cable IMO. But if those were in place you could literally mix-n-match any part of any synth with any other. Use Samples from NN-XT going through Thor's filters, and modulated by Malstrom's "Mods", with a poly limiter placed after the filters to control resonance. One can dream… :-)
  #27  
Old 2012-12-22, 16:38
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normen normen is online now
 
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How exactly was this done in the real world? Isn't the CV inputs "full resolution" "pcm" inputs just like audio? Couldn't RE developers make this true without the help of the Props? I mean if its like an audio signal and the resolution is high enough you can encode anything you can in the real world and thats below Nyquist, right? Ofc the internal instruments might not be directly compatible etc. but a proof of concept?
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  #28  
Old 2012-12-22, 16:39
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjoeri View Post
I totally see your point about polyphonic CV and voice connections. Would take modularity to a new level IMHO. Have this specific feature been suggested before?

Cheers
In many ways, including the ReRack suggestion above (which is a workaround to not having those connectors in Reason). I've suggested MIDI cables for poly CV, and ADAT cables for poly audio, in order to keep all the existing cables working as before (for backwards compatibility). :-)
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  #29  
Old 2012-12-24, 14:05
bozotoo bozotoo is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
+1

Hey, talk to your buddies at Roland and get them to do the system 700 and 100M for REs. I remember literally drooling over those brochures as a kid in High School!
LOL ...that was almost 30 years ago ...I think everyone I knew there is dead by now. But it was a great time. I had a whole 700 and a couple of 100s in my studio there (along with all the other stuff --SH5-, SH1, SH-7, various processors and electric keyboards. All to myself ...all day long, as long as I was not on the road hauling this stuff around the country.

Quote:
For me I want to see poly CV AND poly voice interconnects in Reason. Then you really could build your own synth. Poly CV is easy since we already have a CV interface - just need to support poly gate really. Poly voice would require a new interconnect protocol/cable IMO. But if those were in place you could literally mix-n-match any part of any synth with any other. Use Samples from NN-XT going through Thor's filters, and modulated by Malstrom's "Mods", with a poly limiter placed after the filters to control resonance. One can dream… :-)
Oh yeah, of course. Both would be unbelievably great. Poly AND CV-Integrated at the CV/Gate and audio level with the rest of REASON?!?! I mean, eyes bulging, heart-throbbing, arms dangling uselessly at your side, knees going weak, jaw-slackening, died and gone to heaven state of AWE... NOTHING could be better.

...Well ...maybe a neural implant device that reads your musical thoughts and converts them to digital format that executes automatically in REASON. That MIGHT be a little better. But not much.

Have you seen SynFactory?

It has a hopelessly simplistic and unattractive GUI, it's fine-tuned to the point of near-uselessness and it has marginal sound quality. But the modular idea is well-conceived. There is a huge variety of modules, it is endlessly expandable and modules can be laid out freely in two-dimensional space in any way you like. Plus ...its FREE. Check it out.

-BH

.

Last edited by bozotoo; 2012-12-24 at 14:09.
 

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