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  #111  
Old 2012-12-20, 19:56
normen's Avatar
normen normen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonezMcCoy View Post
Sorry, from your post I understood that you meant that if you take a WAV file and load it in Reason and another DAW, and you apply exactly the same settings Reason will sound worse. This is what doesn't make sense. The post you are quoting seem to be talking about the tools/plugins used inside a DAW to score that horrible film about giant Smurfs.
Yeah, people get that wrong all the time..

Still..

Analog consoles sound different, they definitely do, I think we don't disagree. How come that while producers and engineers might prefer one console, they still manage to sound good and typical on all of them? They book a studio and then its "Oh, theres an API".. or an Oxford.. or an SSL.. Some sound "darker", some "brighter". Still they don't create dark sounding mixes on the one and bright ones on the other.

And yes, you could do Avatar in Reason and People would not complain. It would sound different ofc, but not necessarily bad, how did the people in the 70s do music with gear that *objectively* was worse than any cheap sound card today? Remember Reason simulates an 80's studio, not Skywalker Sound anno 2012.

I think people misjudge why the top stuff is expensive. Its not because of magic, please stop believing and start hearing and understanding
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Last edited by normen; 2012-12-20 at 19:58.
  #112  
Old 2012-12-20, 20:20
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemidi View Post
Ok ok.... Reason has a perfect mix engine, perfect stereo imaging and PERFECT EVERYTHING. Sounds the same as any other DAW and can dump all the raw stems for major film such as "Inception", "Avatar", "Batman Returns", Star Wars" etc. dump it into Reason, mix it down and get the same pristine sound quality. I hope this serves your sycophantic desires. This thread has obviously strayed and I don't even know what you're all arguing about now. I'm done, perhaps to read another post that is more knowledge based.
More to it than that.

When most people say "mixed in Pro Tools" it can mean a wide variety of things. Many big studios use a combination of Pro Tools and outboard gear so you will hear:

1. Some of Pro Tools built in effects.
2. Some hardware gear like LA2As or Distressors.
3. Tons of other 3rd party Plug-ins (UAD, Waves, Softtube, etc).
4. Some sounds sent to a Real SSL board and actually mixed on that (Pro Tools just used as a tape recorder).


So without hearing the whole story of how these mixes were mixed, there is not a lot you can go by.


Now if someone said "Avatar" was mixed in Pro Tools 100% ITB with only factory stock plug-ins, that would imply a 100% Pro Tools mix.

I bet very few "Big-Time" Studios are doing 100% Pro Tools mixes, because they usually have the actual hardware boxes many plug-ins try to emulate so they often will just patch many sounds to the real thing. There are a few YouTube clips of people mixing songs where they are routing the vocals outside of Pro Tools for processing.


That said if you want Partial or full OTB mixes, this would be harder to do in Reason because it has not good way of dealing with sending signals out of it to be processed and re recorded back into the input (other than re recording it). Also I don't know many Soundcards that have 48 channels of I/O, where some Pro Tools HD systems do. Less to do with sound quality of the DAWs but more to deal with features that caters to professional users who often have a need or desire to still mix and match their older still valuable hardware with their systems. Most Amateur users also wouldn't have the resources to pay for 48 channels of I/O and the hardware as well.

Most DAWs have external insert effects to handle this need which also allow for latency compensation of using the external effects.


So in some would have an edge but it has nothing to do with sound quality and more to deal with Pro Tools having features that specifically caters to certain needs.

Last edited by jlgrimes; 2012-12-20 at 20:28.
  #113  
Old 2012-12-20, 20:41
JensenTNI JensenTNI is offline
 
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Posts: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhansen View Post
And yes, you could do Avatar in Reason and People would not complain. It would sound different ofc, but not necessarily bad, how did the people in the 70s do music with gear that *objectively* was worse than any cheap sound card today? Remember Reason simulates an 80's studio, not Skywalker Sound anno 2012.

I think people misjudge why the top stuff is expensive. Its not because of magic, please stop believing and start hearing and understanding
I think Reason has entirely stopped simulating an 80's studio with version 6. Sure the main mixer is an emulation and all the sound tweaking capabilities at this stage maybe look a lot like 80's gear (Echo, Neptune, Scream) or have not changed at all since Reason conception (Subtractor, NN19) but what you can do even with these old tools is way beyond 80 technoligy.

What IS however quite old fashioned is the visual representation of the sound. Meaning, except of loudness meters all over the place and a basic vectoscope in the imager, there is pretty much nothing on offer (please don't refer to the Vocoder now ). Whether that is intentional or not is because of the lack of knowledge up for debate. However it does mean that Reason users have to shape sound more by ear than the users of any other modern DAW in existence. This is good practice, however is unnecessary in my opinion.

Prior to Rack Extensions I also would have agreed that it is harder to create a really good sound in Reason than in lets say Cubase. Simply because Cubase hat instantly more flexible soundshaping tools than Reason. Now of course that has changed dramatically and I challenge anyone to prove to me that a more "professional" DAW can do it better (and Cubase has just such a horrible interface). And still Reason does lack in the visual department and is way behind the times. Sure it looks great interface wise but clunky and you have to rely on your ears mostly as I said before. And before this is not fixed, people who like to mix with all the nifty visual aides the branche has to offer, Reason will not be able to compete with the Ableton followers, the "Pro's" who still stack piles of hardware to feed their Pro-Tools and the Fruity Loops Kiddos who illigelly download all those great looking VST's. Reason is a very popular niche (due to its ease to uase and fast way to create music) but its a niche regardless in my opinion (and I'm not even going near the Midi-Out discussion now).

Do I personally care about all of that? Not at all, Reason is the one DAW I want to use and so I accept it with all its imperfections, however I recognize that still a lot of work needs to be done to truly elevate it to the all around-tool it could be.
  #114  
Old 2012-12-21, 00:04
normen's Avatar
normen normen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JensenTNI View Post
Whether that is intentional or not is because of the lack of knowledge up for debate.
Option 3: They didn't get around to do it properly the way they imagine it Its not there, it takes effort to make it, explaining why its not there is unnecessary You can't buy a well written extension to your software for money, external programmers would mess up your software. It always requires work, pure work. And the programmers are the ones who see almost all implications at once

Agree with most what you said though.
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  #115  
Old 2012-12-22, 02:54
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charlycharlzz charlycharlzz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemidi View Post
its all in the summing... Every DAW can handle up to a certain amount of tracks before it starts to... Lets say "crack under pressure". (Just google summing in DAWs). You will find a bunch of information including videos of people doing actual comparisons. If this wasn't true, and all DAWs sound the same, and summing in them was not an issue then why would companies like Dangerous Audio, SSL and Apogge, (just to name a few) spend so much money, time and resources to build external summing devices that cost thousands of dollars? Of coarse just a couple of tracks with no effects on them would sound the same, but the average song is not just a couple of tracks with no effects what so ever.

I think you dont anderstand that in reason you build your sounds and if you a good you build something better then any vst and if your are dumb in sound design you got to start to learn for results !

a vst better sound good with all the cpu it burns because of small modules they put inside .
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  #116  
Old 2012-12-23, 20:12
AsanteLawla AsanteLawla is offline
 
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Posts: 89
Tweak vs non tweak

though I dont completely agree with you, having to tweak sounds all the time to get that pro sound can be a bit annoying. but overall Reasons sound recording, playback and devices are generally on par with other software

I think what makes the difference is pre compressed and tweaked sounds in other DAW's plug ins. for example If anyone here has played with Figure on the mobile they'd know that it has some really phat sounds (especially the drums) using a baby version of the reason engine, though to get the same sound in reason can be a chore sometimes.

Every time i or a friend play a track with really phat sounding drums and bass people ask "how did you do that in reason???" not realising its just basic compression.

but the problem with adding some of these pre tweaked plug-in stuff into reasons devices means you loose the freedom of reasons modular workflow and eat up CPU where you dont necessarily need to if you know your way around.

Last edited by AsanteLawla; 2012-12-23 at 20:15.
  #117  
Old 2012-12-27, 18:15
reasonfano reasonfano is offline
 
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well said men
  #118  
Old 2012-12-27, 19:20
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ohmygoff ohmygoff is offline
 
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Whenever I read threads like this, I just have to smile, thinking of the audio engineers I know doing their job on ProTools for compatibilty with Avid, while doing their private stuff on Reason now, just for ease of use...
  #119  
Old 2012-12-27, 20:18
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Djstarski Djstarski is offline
 
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not trying to be funny , but the the guy that started this thread makes beats not music .
beat makers can become preset producers quite easily .

then you have the engineering side of things .

you have to ask yourself , what is his skill level .

Last edited by Djstarski; 2012-12-27 at 20:22.
  #120  
Old 2012-12-31, 00:24
Flandersh Flandersh is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 323
I would very well be interesting in wav loaded into Reason and exported as well as the same wav loaded into another daw and exported, for comparition.

I have at the moment only Reason 3 installed, and so I had to load the wav trought the NN19 sampler in Reason. With a clean export from NN19 (no dithering and no sample rate conversion) and a clean export of the same wav from Reaper (still no dithering or sample rate conversion), the two files have a difference around 200 hz according to a comparition in Wavelab 7. If any one is able to explain the differences I would like to hear. Is it something going on in the NN19, or is it something I've done wrong?
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