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  #21  
Old 2013-01-15, 09:46
Wensell's Avatar
Wensell Wensell is offline
 
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Vasilis, how is your mastering-approach? If you could give us a walk trough of your workflow?
Personally, I don't understand the word mastering.. after I read an interview with Skrillex (!) where he said "it is all about the mix". After that I do all in one project, mix and put on a limiter on the master bus. But then, I do rock music.

I listened one more time on your song, this time trough Koss Porta Pro and the first version is the best.. in my taste. Later you will probably hear the opposite. That is the beauty of music, there is (almost) no right or wrong
  #22  
Old 2013-01-15, 12:11
eclectus eclectus is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 47
I do agree with some of the concerns voiced in this thread: both examples sound flat, lifeless and almost mono to my ears.

The kick-bass combo doesn't punch like modern dance music usually does - it doesn't have the weight that it should have. I would try to create more space for these two in the mix, using EQ.

The otherwise very nice (for it's genre) epic synths sound as if they want to be wider. Maybe some panning or a subtle reverb on the anthem?

Now if any of that cannot be fixed in the mix and I had to choose between the two masters I'd go with the second option. Too much mids on the first one, it's like the claps/snare become the most prominent feature of your track.

Anyway just my opinion from listening on lavry DA-10 and AKG 271 MkII, a combo I listened to and worked on for over 1.000 hours.

Best of luck with your track!
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  #23  
Old 2013-01-15, 12:54
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Vasilis Vasilis is offline
 
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Posts: 135
Not sure that the kick and bass sound not powerful, but i may have to give on the drums more punch via compression. I have already eq much on them and if i do more not sure that it will sound tight.
As for the synths will try add some more reverb but i want to avoid the space effect as i need them to sound straight. If u turn the track in mono it sounds as it should sound if u know what i mean.
The problem which is a pain for me is that i have a lead pad sidechained (the chords). In the first version i had just eq a bit. In the second version which is noticeable i cuted various high freq that was really annoying in my ears. The high ones. But i dont like how it sounds now... sounds like its via telephone or sth.

I think i should re-do the whole mixing. Most of people told me the 1st one is the best. Non producers liked it as it was... So this is sth i have to keep in mind too... We listen things that common people/listeners will not. And i actually i care about the general feeling that my track can give

As for the process...For this one i have mix bus enabled, 2 eq before stereo imager, then i have 3 compressors running, another eq where i have HP everything below 40hz and above 16khz. another eq for little boost and 2 ozone maximizers. On the first i have actually 2 Mclass maximizers instead of ozone. (Actually the compression is light... maybe this needs to be fixed to get more energy out of it)

PS: what i really afraid of is overcompression because my aim is club systems. Usually when i start compressing more the mix via my master chain (not limiting) it starts pumping more and i like it better but at the same time i am afraid of one thing. Not to overcompress it.
Better to explain... i dont have yet the ability to test my tracks to clubs so i cannot ensure what is going on. My studio monitors and my headphones will tell me sth but in the club i will be able to feel understand better some things...

Anyway not need to confuse me or you more... I will try to make it more pumping and clear and repost a file to hear later on.

Last edited by Vasilis; 2013-01-15 at 12:56. Reason: correction on master chain
  #24  
Old 2013-01-15, 13:33
PsyTale's Avatar
PsyTale PsyTale is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis View Post
Not sure that the kick and bass sound not powerful, but i may have to give on the drums more punch via compression. I have already eq much on them and if i do more not sure that it will sound tight.
As for the synths will try add some more reverb but i want to avoid the space effect as i need them to sound straight. If u turn the track in mono it sounds as it should sound if u know what i mean.
The problem which is a pain for me is that i have a lead pad sidechained (the chords). In the first version i had just eq a bit. In the second version which is noticeable i cuted various high freq that was really annoying in my ears. The high ones. But i dont like how it sounds now... sounds like its via telephone or sth.

I think i should re-do the whole mixing. Most of people told me the 1st one is the best. Non producers liked it as it was... So this is sth i have to keep in mind too... We listen things that common people/listeners will not. And i actually i care about the general feeling that my track can give

As for the process...For this one i have mix bus enabled, 2 eq before stereo imager, then i have 3 compressors running, another eq where i have HP everything below 40hz and above 16khz. another eq for little boost and 2 ozone maximizers. On the first i have actually 2 Mclass maximizers instead of ozone. (Actually the compression is light... maybe this needs to be fixed to get more energy out of it)

PS: what i really afraid of is overcompression because my aim is club systems. Usually when i start compressing more the mix via my master chain (not limiting) it starts pumping more and i like it better but at the same time i am afraid of one thing. Not to overcompress it.
Better to explain... i dont have yet the ability to test my tracks to clubs so i cannot ensure what is going on. My studio monitors and my headphones will tell me sth but in the club i will be able to feel understand better some things...

Anyway not need to confuse me or you more... I will try to make it more pumping and clear and repost a file to hear later on.
You are talking the talk but you are not walking the walk. The punch in your kick/bass are really bad, your song sounds flat. I am telling you after training my ears on mixing for over 10 years. If you think we are not capable of seeing your "style" and you want to stick to that then please do so, but then dont ask for our advice.

Your ideas to redo it seems the BEST possible solution. But dont think you can "fix" this. You will not be able to do that in the same project. The thought behind restarting it to learn where things are going wrong, thisway you learn what you should and should not do during mixing/mastering. Your track only becomes this flat if you use too much fx.
  #25  
Old 2013-01-15, 13:52
Vasilis's Avatar
Vasilis Vasilis is offline
 
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Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyTale View Post
You are talking the talk but you are not walking the walk. The punch in your kick/bass are really bad, your song sounds flat. I am telling you after training my ears on mixing for over 10 years. If you think we are not capable of seeing your "style" and you want to stick to that then please do so, but then dont ask for our advice.

Your ideas to redo it seems the BEST possible solution. But dont think you can "fix" this. You will not be able to do that in the same project. The thought behind restarting it to learn where things are going wrong, thisway you learn what you should and should not do during mixing/mastering. Your track only becomes this flat if you use too much fx.
I don't think that i told anyone "you are not capable of seeing" though i didn't find your feedback as an answer to my 1st post/question.
The term flat for a track to me means like it is overcompressed. Right or i understand it wrong?
And as far as the: it can't be fixed ... i am sure everything can be fixed. just needs the right processing.
  #26  
Old 2013-01-15, 18:23
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PsyTale PsyTale is offline
 
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis View Post
I don't think that i told anyone "you are not capable of seeing" though i didn't find your feedback as an answer to my 1st post/question.
The term flat for a track to me means like it is overcompressed. Right or i understand it wrong?
And as far as the: it can't be fixed ... i am sure everything can be fixed. just needs the right processing.
I give up, i'm not coming across the way I want.
  #27  
Old 2013-01-15, 18:58
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djfm1983 djfm1983 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 949
Looking at the waveforms on your soundcloud page they both look like they have been over compressed. What is the dynamic rage on your masters? Also when I was listening to the second version the into was hurting my ears when I was listening with ear buds.
Are you using k-metering at all? Just wondering.
K know this might sound like a pain but why not turn off all of your eqs and then starting the mix over from scratch(make sure to mix with no mastering chain on) and start by building your foundation first (start with your low end, kick,bass drums) then mix everything else in. Try setting the vu offset to 0 = -16 peak. - 16 peak is just about equal to -14rms. I like using the k-14 metering system while mixing. Also just wondering have you seen my video on how to properly A/B compare dry to comp to make sure your getting the right sound out of your compression settings in the mix.
Man I really wish I could hear the raw mix without any mastering on it. That's what we should be focusing on first. For all we know his mastering settings could be ruining his mix. Your using 2 maximizers and your eqing the master , why not take care of eq in the mix . If your serious about releasing your track you should really have a pro master the song.

www.livestream.com/djfm1983
  #28  
Old 2013-01-15, 19:50
Vasilis's Avatar
Vasilis Vasilis is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 135
Thanks for the help. I appreciate it man and btw i watched the video and it is helpful enough.
As for the vu offset i change it as u mentioned, didnt actually know this, so i will re-do from scratch on this one.
Btw I posted the raw mix but i had to delete it as i dont want to have it exposed here. if u want i can pm it to u.
  #29  
Old 2013-01-15, 20:08
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djfm1983 djfm1983 is offline
 
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Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasilis View Post
Thanks for the help. I appreciate it man and btw i watched the video and it is helpful enough.
As for the vu offset i change it as u mentioned, didnt actually know this, so i will re-do from scratch on this one.
Btw I posted the raw mix but i had to delete it as i dont want to have it exposed here. if u want i can pm it to u.
Sure pm me the raw mix down, i'd love to check it out. I like setting my vu offset to 0vu to -16 peak because it helps me not only keep some of the dynamics but also keep some headroom while mixing. When you move the offset knob the 0 moves on the ssl channels (in the mixer view). I keep an eye out on the mater faders meters and shoot for the vu to start around 0 with it going into the red during the loudest posts of the song. Keep in mind that this is only when I mix, mastering is a different story.
 

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