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  #171  
Old 2013-02-13, 16:13
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlycharlzz View Post
it's a bad way to look at it !
of course you get good sounds in maschine and your MPC because they both are samplers lol !
and NI vst's are making a good sound because they got good presets done by other dudes that are pro for this ! you can make good sounds in reason but not if you are bad in sound design .also there is not much complex combi synth in the SB.

I think you got it all wrong but I am 100% with you in the way that if better and more presets was done for reason by pros it would sound better but in no ways any other soft got some secret magic that make them better sounding then reason, it's just the same but reason give you a kit with a screw driver and leave you to your own skills .
I think Reason Factory Sounds are pretty good preset wise in terms of synths.


Its included samples aren't bad but a little outdated. A plus side though is Reason is a lot more lean and mean than Kontakt (50 gigs) vs Reason being about 5 gigs of samples.



I think whoever program Reason synths actually do a better job than the people who NI uses. But I think Reason suits my style a little better. NI has a wider spectrum of synth sounds but a lot of its presets focus on abstract. Many of Reason's synths focus more on bread and butter type stuff. They might not be the most interesting sounds but many of them fit right easily into a mix.


Komplete+Maschine pretty much blows Reason away though in terms of the quality of the included sample libraries. I think part of it is the size of Kontakts library 50 gigs vs Reason's maybe 5 gigs.


Another is Kontakts scripting and advanced filters which pretty much makes it a synth in its own right (a hard one though), but at the same time Reason gets points for having an extensive palette of samples (while small) and being lean and mean.

Last edited by jlgrimes; 2013-02-13 at 16:17.
  #172  
Old 2013-02-14, 23:47
Irakabalaie's Avatar
Irakabalaie Irakabalaie is offline
 
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Posts: 90
Totally agree ...

When do you have listen a Demo song who sounds amazing ????

I never have listened a Kill demo song .. No one sounds totally pro .. even the ones who has been made by professionals of the audio..

The other day I worked on a Real studio and making a comparison of sounds of two sampled drums at 48.2 Khz 24 Bit dept One on reason 6.5 and the other on Logic ..
I suposed to make the same procces on two .. EQ, Compressing and limiting .. All two with the Fx chain offers the program .. and .. what do you think I heard ...
Yes ... the same proccess, the same paramneters ... the same audio .. the same speakers .. the same audio engine card .. and .. Reason is very poor .. very diferent .. you have to make more movements to get that .. and even beeng exagerated , you never get that sound..
So I totally agree ... Prop have to work very seriously on sound improvement.

Reason is a Toy today by itself ... It need another platform to improve the sound...

We want to be the stand alone platform who doesnt leave you as an amateur.
  #173  
Old 2013-02-14, 23:56
normen's Avatar
normen normen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irakabalaie View Post
We want to be the stand alone platform who doesnt leave you as an amateur.
I wonder if your definition of "professional" is right if a software can make you an amateur ^^
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  #174  
Old 2013-02-15, 02:44
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irakabalaie View Post
Totally agree ...

When do you have listen a Demo song who sounds amazing ????

I never have listened a Kill demo song .. No one sounds totally pro .. even the ones who has been made by professionals of the audio..

The other day I worked on a Real studio and making a comparison of sounds of two sampled drums at 48.2 Khz 24 Bit dept One on reason 6.5 and the other on Logic ..
I suposed to make the same procces on two .. EQ, Compressing and limiting .. All two with the Fx chain offers the program .. and .. what do you think I heard ...
Yes ... the same proccess, the same paramneters ... the same audio .. the same speakers .. the same audio engine card .. and .. Reason is very poor .. very diferent .. you have to make more movements to get that .. and even beeng exagerated , you never get that sound..
So I totally agree ... Prop have to work very seriously on sound improvement.

Reason is a Toy today by itself ... It need another platform to improve the sound...

We want to be the stand alone platform who doesnt leave you as an amateur.
On the other hand, I can get sounds out of Reason that is more difficult in Live.

Disagree on drums. I get good drums out of Reason.

All of Kongs internal samples are 24 bit.

I have had Reason songs mixed at big studios and granted they used Pro Tools, the mixes came out fine.


Many people probably agree that most of Reasons base effects are lacking. That's why they did the RE thing which overall sounds great.

There are still missing a lot of devices though but it is coming slowly but surely. RE2a, Pulverizer, and others are great effects.


Patience. Reason is definitely focusing on sound.


I think their most glaring weakness is the lack of big sample libraries, and dedicated devices like Deessers and such now but the devices are making progress.
  #175  
Old 2013-02-16, 14:11
bananaranha bananaranha is offline
 
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Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by normen View Post
Well, compression is simple to prove, its a change in level. I don't doubt you hear differences but its maily due to differences in how the knobs work and effects sound, no secret magic in the "mixing engine" (again look at the code I posted and call it an "engine", its not that complicated).
I don't think he means that kind of compression (what a "compressor" does).

He means it in the "lossy compression" sense (say, mp3 compared to FLAC).

And I'm sure Reason has got some of that going on, which can take lots of forms, in instruments and samples: bad dithering algorithms, antialias, not high enough sampling rates, etc.

But then again, a proper multi-sampled piano goes to around 40GB these days, were Reason's has 2-3 piano patches of 100MB in the standard library and the whole Reason Pianos is a couple of GB at best.

And a high end synth engine, like Diva, has extremely CPU expensive filters, to the point that one patch with 6-8 voice can go to 50% of the CPU, whereas you can get 200 voice out of Thor.

So, sure, corners have been cut in Reason, sound wise. But it was mostly done to keep it lean and responsive.

Plus, with the lack of plugin delay compensation, a high quality/higher latency synth would sound extremely out of phase in Reason.
  #176  
Old 2013-02-16, 17:06
normen's Avatar
normen normen is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaranha View Post
I don't think he means that kind of compression (what a "compressor" does).

He means it in the "lossy compression" sense (say, mp3 compared to FLAC).

And I'm sure Reason has got some of that going on, which can take lots of forms, in instruments and samples: bad dithering algorithms, antialias, not high enough sampling rates, etc.

But then again, a proper multi-sampled piano goes to around 40GB these days, were Reason's has 2-3 piano patches of 100MB in the standard library and the whole Reason Pianos is a couple of GB at best.

And a high end synth engine, like Diva, has extremely CPU expensive filters, to the point that one patch with 6-8 voice can go to 50% of the CPU, whereas you can get 200 voice out of Thor.

So, sure, corners have been cut in Reason, sound wise. But it was mostly done to keep it lean and responsive.

Plus, with the lack of plugin delay compensation, a high quality/higher latency synth would sound extremely out of phase in Reason.
Well with Reason you don't buy a pro sample library (I can get that with Logic for 150€), you buy a very innovative music software that allows you to do things in ways otherwise not possible (due to the lack of similar software). I guess I underestimate how much people depend on presets and samples or expect that when they press play in a music software after basically doing nothing they hear music that sounds like the latest song in the radio ^^ That has nothing to do with "ability to make music", "quality of the algorithms" or "

Automatic delay compensation would be hell in reason with only semi-complicated projects. Not for the software.. for you ^^ You seem to underestimate how much more complicated reasons signal flow really is compared to the simple channel->plugins->bus->output of other DAWs. For inserts w/o external connections it could work but remembering all kinds of specialties about routing doesn't suit reason very well. But behaving like a normal analog studio where you have to care for this as well indeed does fit Reason very well imo Those modern digital mastering processors do have latency, and loads of it.
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Plugin latency issues? Phasing on parallel channels? Want to know the real latency of your audio interface? Try the VMG-01!
Professional Audio Engineer at Theater Bremen, Germany • Part Time Programmer
  #177  
Old 2013-02-22, 21:44
timmybuk2's Avatar
timmybuk2 timmybuk2 is offline
 
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Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by scifunk View Post
Generally those that complain about the sound quality of a DAW do not know how to produce music properly.

Reason does have a 'sound' and I would put that down to the SSL mixer that you have to route your audio through. It's a slightly dull sound (I dont know if this is a characteristic of the SSL)
It has been my experience that each plugin has a feel. Reason is no different. The tools are there, just dive in and learn
The dullness i found is made lack of correct eq and compression. My opinon.
  #178  
Old 2013-02-23, 00:23
maclife maclife is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUrbanMaestro View Post
Hello propellerhead,

I just wanted to leave a comment right now because I think I have to mention this somehow...
To come right to the point :

PROPELLERHEAD should work on the weaknesses of the program instead of releasing mediocre new synths...and that is the overall soundquality and the built in fx...After a long long time being a reason user myself I really got used to the workflow and all in one system comcept...loved it and made a lot of beats with it...BUT today I told myself why do I have to fiddle and layer tons of stuff to get the sound of commercial releases nowaday and remade a beat with cubase and some vsts. I know alot of you will get offendet by this now but truth hurts Reason sounds like mp3 out of the box and that is why propellerhead should work on that POINT ! They release a new FM Synth not even sound as crystal clear as the FM8 from Native Instruments...compare yourself ! This makes me a bit sad but also angry at the same time...seems like a money makin mashinery here...
And I mean why do you get like 100 forum posts about reason soundquality if you google for it !
Anyway get your quality right props and then start charging thos high amounts of money !
i agree. The last time reason brought it was 5.0 record and kong that was like ok now there making noise. it's just been blah ever since
  #179  
Old 2013-02-23, 00:50
OMOMs's Avatar
OMOMs OMOMs is online now
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,027
I really have to stop visiting these forums...
people do yourselves and everyone around you a favor, and do what you enjoy doing.
Your life is really gonna be a lot better, because you don't have to get upset about not doing what you enjoy doing.
it's really simple!
and that's exactly what I'm gonna do now. put myself on ignore and go have a great evening with my wife.

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cheers!
fredhoven

Last edited by OMOMs; 2013-02-23 at 00:54.
  #180  
Old 2013-02-27, 19:48
BSOUNDBEATZ's Avatar
BSOUNDBEATZ BSOUNDBEATZ is offline
 
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Posts: 10
Tru...I think the sounds are there.Just give me drag n drop and improve the sound quality and im with reason forever.Im on FL studio now because of the drag n drop workflow but reason does have FL studio beat in the sound quality area ill give you that.
 

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