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  #11  
Old 2003-05-15, 23:08
stormchild's Avatar
stormchild stormchild is offline
 
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Posts: 14
Re: Easy trick for splitting MIDI

:1) Even though values within Reason are based on the 0-127 MIDI standard, there is an obvious reluctance to take MIDI any farther-they chose cv emulation. If they did this, MIDI out is so close, and they've put their foot down there. Maybe it's like the streaming deal-everyone wants "just a little" streaming-which begats the spiral quickly leading to the full-blown deal.

No, CV is not instead of MIDI. They do different things, and it's great to have both. And I'm not talking about MIDI *output* to control other MIDI devices, or audio recording -- *those* are cans of worms. This device would only function within Reason (heh -- that pun just never gets old); it's not going to blow up into a huge project.

:2) Have they ever changed a pre-existing device to implement a new feature? (yes-ReMix) What about backwards compatibility? You are asking for a change in every device.

They have also added tempo sync to some of the devices. It doesn't matter how many devices need changing -- the only real issue is whether the change will affect backwards-compatibility. This would definitely not affect that at all; we're not changing any features here, we're adding a new one.

:Now that we have the cv splitter, not having access to cv values from the sequencer is pretty glaring. A single jack on the cv splitter pointing at any sequencer track would solve 2/3'rds of stormchild's issues, but pointed at exactly what in that track? hmmm. If it could point at note values OR any controller lane, then more of stormchild's issues are addressed, but that's a lot more complexity. Some could only be done with MIDI "cables". A whole new system to implement how much more control?

No no. CV is totally completely different from MIDI. CV is "virtual voltage", MIDI is discrete digital values. Now, it's true that CV stuff, in Reason, boils down to discrete digital values too -- it's software after all. But that's not what's important; what's important is how it's *used*. My keyboard is not sending CV into Reason, it's sending MIDI. The CV implementations in Reason are totally cool, and would still be useful and totally different from having MIDI routing within the program too.

MIDI is the way external devices talk to the program. CV splitting will not solve any of the problems I'm talking about.

:So how about it? The real issue (ok, 90% stormchild?) is a new kind of access to what's in the sequencer, something way beyond what any other program does. I think the Spiders already give us something no other program can do!

Yes, the Spiders are great. That's why I'd like to see them extend the Spider line beyond audio & CV, and add this Spider MIDI box. CV and MIDI are completely different methods of control. Devices talk CV to each other, but we (the musicians) talk MIDI, and I'm talking about ways to talk to more devices at once (in a more flexible, and *recordable* way). MIDI utilities like the one I'm describing are common in real MIDI gear -- filtering, splitting, etc.

Logic's "environment" lets you do all of this and more, but it's complicated to learn and time-consuming to set up. If Propellerhead made something like this, it would be easy-to-use, would look and "feel" great. Typically, in Logic you can do anything you want, but everything is harder (try getting a MIDI slider to control a slider on a software instrument in Logic -- it's insane!), and in Reason, the possibilities aren't quite as limitless, but they're so much easier and faster, and ultimately more fun to use.
  #12  
Old 2003-05-16, 07:52
Ogggy's Avatar
Ogggy Ogggy is offline
 
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Posts: 262
Re: Easy trick for splitting MIDI

MIDI is a compromise reached (almost exactly) 20 years ago by Sequential Circuits, Yamaha, Korg, Roland, and Kawai-but the main heavy lifting was done by SC and Roland. Octave Plateau thought that what they came up with was ridiculous because it uses a 5-pin serial DIN cable and two pins were not used, and are still not used to this day. Others wanted a faster parallel system. We are lucky that the manufacturers agreed on anything. It's limited, but mostly adequate for what it has done. Can you think of another standard in computing that has lasted that long? Sorry, you know all this. Never the less, it is a 20 year old compromise you are championing.

You
  #13  
Old 2003-08-21, 17:35
valiumart valiumart is offline
 
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Re: Easy trick for splitting MIDI

Been following this one with interest. My take on it is this:

We have all the tools/routings we need with the existing splitters & devices if only we could get MIDI into the splitters.

So how about two new but very simple devices:

1. Note Generator: no input connections but a single Gate CV and Note CV output.

Any MIDI note sent to this device gets sent out as a gate and note signal. If you want to trigger multiple devices you route the outputs directly to a CV Spider.

2. Curve Generator:

A single control selecting CC1-127 on the front, a single Curve CV output on the back.

Any CC received by the device which matches the selected CC gets transmitted as curve CV output out the back. Again, you can route this directly to any other device (as the Matrix does) or into a CV Spider for fun modulation possibilities...


This approach would have the advantage of not messing about with the architecture of the existing devices and would hopefully be straightforward to use.

What do you reckon?

Steve.

  #14  
Old 2003-09-26, 13:09
Ogggy's Avatar
Ogggy Ogggy is offline
 
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Posts: 262
Yes

:Been following this one with interest. My take on it is this:
:
:We have all the tools/routings we need with the existing splitters & devices if only we could get MIDI into the splitters.
:
:So how about two new but very simple devices:
:
:1. Note Generator: no input connections but a single Gate CV and Note CV output.
:
:Any MIDI note sent to this device gets sent out as a gate and note signal. If you want to trigger multiple devices you route the outputs directly to a CV Spider.
:
:2. Curve Generator:
:
:A single control selecting CC1-127 on the front, a single Curve CV output on the back.
:
:Any CC received by the device which matches the selected CC gets transmitted as curve CV output out the back. Again, you can route this directly to any other device (as the Matrix does) or into a CV Spider for fun modulation possibilities...
:
:
:This approach would have the advantage of not messing about with the architecture of the existing devices and would hopefully be straightforward to use.

I can't help but wonder how much is really available. And have you noticed (maybe not if you have no experience on an old comp) that every little thing you do costs? On one hand, your solution is really not that much different from others. But then, on the other hand, depending on stuff I don't know or care about, it could be the real solution, that stays within the Reason/no external MIDI framework. For one thing, it will solve the bugger of a prob of the "no copy/paste controller info" through the subsequent use of the spiders, and that's a very big one indeed.

I must admit, I would like to see Reason both be easy to use AND all powerful for those that want to delve. That would be my #1 request, to go both ways. They have already laid the basis of this exact feature down so well, and I am so happy with what I've got, and am of course excited about the future. But let's let the future remain in the future, for now.

Thanks for the recog and the old earcandy. I have dissed dance music so much but when it is put across so skillfully I can't help but enjoy it fully. Like your new release on the valiumart.com page, it starts so dancey (wife says "dance music" right off then I say yes, but keep listening and give it a chance) and then becomes something so beautiful.

Again, thanks. And your timing is impeccable.

"That's OK, I'm sure they'll listen to Reason"
Hiro Protagonist, Snow Crash.

-Shawn (the Village Idiot)
  #15  
Old 2013-03-23, 18:20
ibanez1998 ibanez1998 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by killrks View Post
I don't know how well this will work for what you want to do, but here's what I do to control more than one midi-controlled Reason device at a time:

Plug in your MIDI controller (I use an Oxygen 8)
Choose your controller in the MIDI prefs
In the Advanced MIDI prefs, choose your controller on all four busses

On the Hardware Interface at the top of your rack:
Hit the bus A button
On channel 1, pick a Malstrom synth
Hit the bus B button
On channel 1, pick a Subtractor synth
Hit the buc C button
On channel 1, pick an NN-XT
Hit the bus D button
On channel 1, pick a Redrum machine

Now, when you play your MIDI controller, the signal will be sent to all four devices simutainously.

Cheers,
rks
..or, and the way I do it is that I just place all the devices in a combinator and use a spider to audio merge everything. Then my active track in my sequencer is my combinator and voila, my MIDI controller is playing all the devices at once without ANY additional MIDI setup.

I have to wonder though about the original idea in the post. Is a MIDI spider really going to be necessary in version 7. If we can add multiple MIDI devices as we saw in the video, then presumably they would be on their own channels. Wouldn't that pretty much negate the need for a MIDI spider?
  #16  
Old 2013-03-23, 19:00
dub08's Avatar
dub08 dub08 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanez1998 View Post
..or, and the way I do it is that I just place all the devices in a combinator and use a spider to audio merge everything. Then my active track in my sequencer is my combinator and voila, my MIDI controller is playing all the devices at once without ANY additional MIDI setup.

I have to wonder though about the original idea in the post. Is a MIDI spider really going to be necessary in version 7. If we can add multiple MIDI devices as we saw in the video, then presumably they would be on their own channels. Wouldn't that pretty much negate the need for a MIDI spider?
Haha.
its 10 year old thread! they prob. didn't have a combinator then (idk)
check your forum settings or sumn
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  #17  
Old 2013-04-07, 22:06
ibanez1998 ibanez1998 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by dub08 View Post
Haha.
its 10 year old thread! they prob. didn't have a combinator then (idk)
check your forum settings or sumn
Wow, didn't catch that. Damn, and I thought I was finally helping somebody on this forum.
  #18  
Old 2013-04-07, 22:26
eric's Avatar
eric eric is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,767
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibanez1998 View Post
Wow, didn't catch that. Damn, and I thought I was finally helping somebody on this forum.
That's always a good thing to do.
 

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