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  #1  
Old 2013-05-04, 06:11
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Reason 7 - razor tool in editing / comp mode

Ok so you used to be able to use the razor tool in comp/editing mode after duplicating a take. Now, when I try to use the razor tool on an inactive take, it just moves the audio around. I used to use the razor tool to manually quantize stuff. The new audio-quantizing thing is cool, but sometimes it doesn't sound good since it's stretching/shrinking the audio. The old manual way let you move things around and cross-fade into parts for a more natural sound.

Please tell me this is still possible to do in Reason 7?
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  #2  
Old 2013-05-04, 06:13
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So uhm, it seems to work in one song but not another... wha??
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  #3  
Old 2013-07-29, 16:45
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Using Reason 7 as we speak; it works on some clips but not on others... I still don't know why.
  #4  
Old 2013-07-29, 18:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squint0r View Post
Ok so you used to be able to use the razor tool in comp/editing mode after duplicating a take. Now, when I try to use the razor tool on an inactive take, it just moves the audio around. I used to use the razor tool to manually quantize stuff. The new audio-quantizing thing is cool, but sometimes it doesn't sound good since it's stretching/shrinking the audio. The old manual way let you move things around and cross-fade into parts for a more natural sound.

Please tell me this is still possible to do in Reason 7?
Yes it is, but you have to de-select the clip first, which isn't obvious IMO. What's now missing is that you used to be able to de-select the clip with the Return key, which now 'exits' you from edit mode.

If you are zoomed out enough in edit mode, simply click outside of the current selected clip in any blank area and you can use the Razor tool. If you are in blocks mode, you can click in the Blocks track above the upper waveform to de-select the clip and access the Razor Tool. :-)
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  #5  
Old 2013-07-30, 14:31
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Unhappy Not exatcly what I meant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
Yes it is, but you have to de-select the clip first, which isn't obvious IMO. What's now missing is that you used to be able to de-select the clip with the Return key, which now 'exits' you from edit mode.

If you are zoomed out enough in edit mode, simply click outside of the current selected clip in any blank area and you can use the Razor tool. If you are in blocks mode, you can click in the Blocks track above the upper waveform to de-select the clip and access the Razor Tool. :-)
I think I explained it wrong. Yes it is true that if I follow the above steps, I can use the razor tool to CUT the clip.

BUT I want to use the razortool still INSIDE comp edit mode, as I am able to do with some clips but not others. I am not intrested in CUTTIN in the current clip, I want to cut between the different takes on that same track (looped comp edit mode - several takes on the same bars over and over again)

See the example on propellerheads:

Vocal Takes in Comp Mode


Quote:
To combine or 'comp' different parts of different takes together, use the Razor tool as a 'selector' for the best lines/words. After creating cut lines with the Razor tool, you can easily move them earlier or later by dragging the 'Cut Handles' left or right. You can delete any edit by deleting the Cut Handle (click on it and hit the 'delete' key). Create a crossfade by clicking/dragging just above the Cut Handle. Silence can be inserted by using the Razor to make a selection in the "Silence" row, located below the Clip Overview and above the Comp Rows.
From: http://www.propellerheads.se/substan...article=part10

On some clips, i can do this, but on others I can't...
Same song.

Or to put it in another way:
When I double click a clip, sometimes I enter COMP EDIT MODE directly, and can use the razor tool as described above.

Other times (other clip) it just enters "slice edit mode" which shows the slice markers, and on the track device appears a button: "Enter Comp Mode" - but when entered = cannot use razor tool as described above - the razor tool only moves the waveform around within the clip.

Last edited by glecas; 2013-07-30 at 14:43.
  #6  
Old 2013-07-30, 20:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glecas View Post
I think I explained it wrong. Yes it is true that if I follow the above steps, I can use the razor tool to CUT the clip.

BUT I want to use the razortool still INSIDE comp edit mode, as I am able to do with some clips but not others. I am not intrested in CUTTIN in the current clip, I want to cut between the different takes on that same track (looped comp edit mode - several takes on the same bars over and over again)

See the example on propellerheads:

Vocal Takes in Comp Mode




From: http://www.propellerheads.se/substan...article=part10

On some clips, i can do this, but on others I can't...
Same song.

Or to put it in another way:
When I double click a clip, sometimes I enter COMP EDIT MODE directly, and can use the razor tool as described above.

Other times (other clip) it just enters "slice edit mode" which shows the slice markers, and on the track device appears a button: "Enter Comp Mode" - but when entered = cannot use razor tool as described above - the razor tool only moves the waveform around within the clip.
I believe I explained exactly what you were asking - how to use the Razor tool in Comp Mode. Please give my original post another chance!

Here's the 'rule': if you see multiple "takes", you can't use the Razor tool. You need to de-select the current clip for comping before you can use the Razor Tool in Comp Mode:


BTW, ironically I'm actually the guy that wrote the quoted article and created the graphic you posted (which is now outdated) for the Props, fwiw… :-)
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Last edited by selig; 2013-07-30 at 20:15.
  #7  
Old 2013-07-31, 01:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post


BTW, ironically I'm actually the guy that wrote the quoted article and created the graphic you posted (which is now outdated) for the Props, fwiw… :-)
It's been a while so I'm not 100% sure the following is right, but the OP and follow-up posters are, I think, quite correct: comp mode, last I used it, annoyed the hell of out me, and it was one of my favourite features.

Reason now seems to default to a single take mode, which means you can't cut comps without an extra step - you need to deactivate single take mode by clicking the speaker icon on the right of that row. It's a really annoying change: I can't see quite what the benefit is. If you only have one take then the icon is redundant, and if you have more than one take you won't want it in single take mode as you're opening comp mode to comp multiple takes! Can't check right now but iirc it doesn't matter whether the clip is selected or not, as you suggest - you can't cut comps in single take mode.

But it gets worse, as joined or merged clips in single take mode, where you have single takes but the subsequent clip uses a different comp row, that next clip gets hidden (i.e., muted) in the sequencer. It's way, way less intuitive than pre-R7.

That's how I remember it, anyway

EDIT: Have just checked the R7 online help, and indeed, this seems correct, although the text suggests that the behaviour should be different to how I remember it. I know I couldn't cut it at all until I'd deselected single take mode (which required making sense of the help file at the time), but the help suggests single take is not active by default with only one comp row present. Hmmm. Wish I could recall the exact scenario I was trying. I do recall a lot of swearing at the time ...
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Last edited by JiggeryPokery; 2013-07-31 at 01:32.
  #8  
Old 2013-07-31, 01:33
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There's no denying Comp mode is unnecessarily complex - there should just be audio lanes (just like note lanes), with the comping features (select/promote) available there. This should work for note tracks as well IMO.

But as far as I can see the Razor tool behavior is the same from previous versions. The only thing I see changed it the ability to use the Return key to de-select the current clip. In R7 the Return key 'exits' you from Comp Mode. ;-(

I've never needed the "extra step" you mention, but maybe I have a different workflow and don't encounter the issue you describe?

:-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggeryPokery View Post
It's been a while so I'm not 100% sure the following is right, but the OP I think is quite correct: comp mode, last I used it, annoyed the hell of out me, and it was one of my favourite features.

Reason now seems to default to a single take mode, which means you can't cut comps without an extra step - you need to deactivate single take mode by clicking the speaker icon on the right of that row. It's a really annoying change: I can't see quite what the benefit is. If you only have one take then the icon is redundant, and if you have more than one take you won't want it in single take mode as you're opening comp mode to comp multiple takes! Can't check right now but iirc it doesn't matter whether the clip is selected or not - you can't cut comps in single take mode.

But it gets worse, as joined or merged clips in single take mode, where you have single takes but the subsequent clip uses a different comp row, that next clip gets hidden (i.e., muted) in the sequencer. It's way, way less intuitive than pre-R7.

That's how I remember it, anyway

EDIT: Have just checked the R7 online help, and indeed, this seems correct, although the text suggests that the behaviour should be different to how I remember it. I know I couldn't cut it at all until I'd deselected single take mode, but the help suggests single take is not active by default with only one comp row present. Hmmm. Wish I could recall the exact scenario I was trying. I do recall a lot of swearing at the time ...
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  #9  
Old 2013-07-31, 01:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
I ... don't encounter the issue you describe

:-)
You will, Oscar, you will

Comp mode Record to R6.5 I thought was bloody brilliant, really fast. The addition of this "single take" mode and extra click to open comp mode I really don't like, although I understand why PH felt that audio quantise should be the first level. There's probably a short-cut to comp mode I need to learn.

Struggling to remember but I think what might have happened in my scenario was that the first "clip" I had was just a single take, but the second clip was multiple takes, but the recording overlapped with the end of the first clip, but Reason "merged" two separate recordings, so instead of two clips it gave me one clip with, say three comp rows. But the clip had already set itself to single take mode, as the original clip was just a single take. Thus, can't comp until you turn single take mode off.

This is probably why the guys above are finding they can cut some clips and not others.
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Last edited by JiggeryPokery; 2013-07-31 at 01:48.
  #10  
Old 2013-07-31, 04:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggeryPokery View Post
You will, Oscar, you will

Comp mode Record to R6.5 I thought was bloody brilliant, really fast. The addition of this "single take" mode and extra click to open comp mode I really don't like, although I understand why PH felt that audio quantise should be the first level. There's probably a short-cut to comp mode I need to learn.

Struggling to remember but I think what might have happened in my scenario was that the first "clip" I had was just a single take, but the second clip was multiple takes, but the recording overlapped with the end of the first clip, but Reason "merged" two separate recordings, so instead of two clips it gave me one clip with, say three comp rows. But the clip had already set itself to single take mode, as the original clip was just a single take. Thus, can't comp until you turn single take mode off.

This is probably why the guys above are finding they can cut some clips and not others.
So you're saying you are not sure? Can you check?

I can't create a single scenario where clips cannot be cut with the Razor while still in Comp Mode, which makes me wonder if we're talking about different things here. If you de-select the clips as I show in the graphic image from a previous post (see below), you can Razor the clip. Doesn't matter if it's single mode or not at that point, since you don't have any "Takes" visible.

Maybe you are trying to Razor clips with Takes still visible, which has never been possible IIRC? Can you create a situation where de-selecting the clips like in my graphic does NOT allow Razoring?

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