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  #11  
Old 2013-05-15, 01:38
Ambientdave Ambientdave is offline
 
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I do sometimes,on scary vocals, I just put them here and there in the track so they jump out ,lol
  #12  
Old 2013-05-15, 01:39
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selig selig is offline
 
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I remember reading All You Need Is Ears by George Martin, and he said he was not at all happy the early twin track masters were released in the US as "stereo". It was not the original intention IIRC, as everything was mixed in mono at that time (by GM). Later on, there were stereo mixes but they were done as an after thought, often with different balances, FX, etc. and with much less care and attention. That is the main reason I heard that many Beatles fans were happy to have the original mono mixes released digitally in 2009. :-)
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  #13  
Old 2013-05-16, 02:18
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wendylou wendylou is offline
 
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I did not know this! Clearly many songs from the Beatles "1" release are the twin track variety panned L & R rather than mono or stereo reworks. It just always tilts my brains when I hear them

Quote:
Originally Posted by selig View Post
I remember reading All You Need Is Ears by George Martin, and he said he was not at all happy the early twin track masters were released in the US as "stereo". It was not the original intention IIRC, as everything was mixed in mono at that time (by GM). Later on, there were stereo mixes but they were done as an after thought, often with different balances, FX, etc. and with much less care and attention. That is the main reason I heard that many Beatles fans were happy to have the original mono mixes released digitally in 2009. :-)
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  #14  
Old 2013-05-16, 03:19
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendylou View Post
I did not know this! Clearly many songs from the Beatles "1" release are the twin track variety panned L & R rather than mono or stereo reworks. It just always tilts my brains when I hear them
IMO the only song where this effect TRULY makes sense to me is U2's Vertigo.

But as far as folks asking why GM did this, the answer is he didn't. ;-)

But I grew up on those mixes and found them quite useful to hear some of the parts isolated by muting one channel. :-)
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  #15  
Old 2013-05-16, 06:53
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lyricalvolt lyricalvolt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendylou View Post
Whenever I hear many early Beatles songs, I'm always blown away by the discrete L and R channels! Singing on Right, guitar on Left, etc. I can't hear any crossover between them. Anybody do this in their productions?
Rarely hard L or R. ±50 or ±60 @ most especially in a crowded mix.
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  #16  
Old 2013-05-16, 09:08
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Raakile Raakile is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseydeclaire View Post
...if songs are playing in cars or clubs, and some have no cross-audioinstallation, there will be lost something...
if you pan something hard left or right, the volume of that sound will drop a few db when listening the mix in mono. Typical monophonic devices are radios, mobile phones, cameras etc..
  #17  
Old 2013-05-16, 10:51
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Kovkov Kovkov is offline
 
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Not really, and when i do it's only for high frequency stuff. Otherwise it can be tricky to cut it on vinyl.
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  #18  
Old 2013-05-16, 11:33
rickblackdog rickblackdog is offline
 
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A lot of producers still use LCR panning (no in-between), that method makes it easier to deal with phase problems. For me however, hard panning things like drum overheads gives an unrealistic sonic stage.

That said, the reality is the only people who will hear the effects of stereo are those listening on headphones. Most other systems (cars, home stereos, TV's, docks, tannoy systems) will effectively be mono by the time the sound reaches the listener. There are v few scenarios where someone will sit and listen and experience actual stereo.
  #19  
Old 2013-05-16, 17:04
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raakile View Post
if you pan something hard left or right, the volume of that sound will drop a few db when listening the mix in mono. Typical monophonic devices are radios, mobile phones, cameras etc..
That depends on two things. The pan law will determine how much the side panned material drops when converted to mono. There are two ways a stereo mix may be converted to mono, electrically like a mono button, and acoustically in the room when you move back away from the speakers. A center panned track with no panning law would be 6 dB louder than the same side panned track, so a hard/side panned track will not sound any louder when electrically combined to mono. A 3 db pan law (like with Reason) will actually make hard panned tracks 3 dB louder with a 'mono button' since they start with a 3 dB advantage.

But when you stand back far enough from a stereo speaker system you basically hear mono, but not 'perfect' mono because the room itself becomes a factor. Therefore a 3 dB pan law often sounds right in those cases. Mixers like the SSL J series use a 4.5 dB pan law to try to offer a compromise between the two scenarios, because a well designed room will act more like an electrical summing to mono. There's a studio in Nashville (Masterfonics "Mix Room" by Hidley) that claims a 5.9 dB acoustic summing! For some strange reason, Pro Tools uses a 2.5 dB pan law.

BTW, Reason for whatever reasons uses a +3 dB pan law rather than a - 3 dB pan law, meaning that a 0 dB tone in the center will clip by 3 dB when panned hard to one side. Other apps have this option but I'm not sure there's any that ONLY give you this pan law option. Wish the Reason mixer was more like the SSL in MANY ways… ;-(
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  #20  
Old 2013-05-16, 17:15
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selig selig is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickblackdog View Post
A lot of producers still use LCR panning (no in-between), that method makes it easier to deal with phase problems. For me however, hard panning things like drum overheads gives an unrealistic sonic stage.

That said, the reality is the only people who will hear the effects of stereo are those listening on headphones. Most other systems (cars, home stereos, TV's, docks, tannoy systems) will effectively be mono by the time the sound reaches the listener. There are v few scenarios where someone will sit and listen and experience actual stereo.
I'm not sure that's the reason for LCR mixes, at least not with many engineers. Here's a very interesting read on the subject written by Dave Moulton. There is also a proper explanation of the Haas Effect - no, it's not a short delay used to make a sound wider, though that's an application of sorts of the Haas Effect. It's about how delays affect the PANNING of a stereo image via the law of first arrival/wavefront (aka the Precedence Effect). .

Read more here.
http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/prin...ntom_image/P0/
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