Propellerhead Software
  #1  
Old 2013-07-16, 20:42
jackburton's Avatar
jackburton jackburton is offline
 
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Posts: 264
Frequencies

Hello all,
I have been working on a new track, and am having a hard time splitting the low end frequencies,....the kick, the bass and the vocals all seem to be sitting around the same range. I have PP'd the vocals with a trio of different eq settings, and tried blending them above the low frequency range, but to me it still seems all mashed up at the start.

Any ideas ?

Thanks
Glenn

https://soundcloud.com/spineccio/stories-to-tell
  #2  
Old 2013-07-16, 21:38
selig's Avatar
selig selig is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackburton View Post
Hello all,
I have been working on a new track, and am having a hard time splitting the low end frequencies,....the kick, the bass and the vocals all seem to be sitting around the same range. I have PP'd the vocals with a trio of different eq settings, and tried blending them above the low frequency range, but to me it still seems all mashed up at the start.

Any ideas ?

Thanks
Glenn

https://soundcloud.com/spineccio/stories-to-tell
It's unlikely the kick, bass, and vocal are all in the same range. The vocal is probably mostly above 200 Hz, the kick below 100 (the fundamental) and the bass will vary from 40 to 160 Hz (fundamental again). First issue to deal with is to be sure there's no sub-sonic energy coming form any of the other tracks. I suspect there is some of this coming from some of your tracks…

Based on what I'm hearing, this mix is fairly low end shy. There's plenty of room below 100 Hz to work with here, especially if you get rid of some of the un-necessary LF energy coming from the other tracks. You could add a bit of sub-kick to this track quite easily if you want the drums to kick a little harder. Or you could choose to feature the bass a bit more if you prefer.

For the kick drum, try a few things. First, dip out a narrow range around 200 Hz to help clean up the tone. Then create a parallel channel and cut everything above 100 Hz, and try boosting around 40-50 Hz. Blend this channel in as your "sub-kick" fader.

Bass sounds ok, maybe just not loud enough for my tastes. I'm not hearing the conflicts you say you are hearing, and the fact that the low end is shy overall leads me to suspect your room has some excess LF energy. This could come from a sub woofer set too loud, or from room modes that are clouding your monitors causing you to cut low end (or not boost it) and keep those instruments lower than they could be.

How does this mix compare to commercial mixes of similar genre on your system? :-)
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Giles Reaves, aka 'selig'
Audio Illusionist, Musical Technologist
Selig Audio, LLC
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  #3  
Old 2013-07-17, 22:22
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jackburton jackburton is offline
 
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Thankyou Giles,
While i was reading this i suddenly thought how great it would be to actually watch you talk me through what you were explaining, i know its probably something you don't do but I would love to send you the song file and possibly ask you to record it ?
I would be captivated, and probably learn more than ever.

PM me if this was even considered for more than 1 milisecond :-)

Thankyou again

Glenn
  #4  
Old 2013-07-30, 20:35
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selig selig is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackburton View Post
Thankyou Giles,
While i was reading this i suddenly thought how great it would be to actually watch you talk me through what you were explaining, i know its probably something you don't do but I would love to send you the song file and possibly ask you to record it ?
I would be captivated, and probably learn more than ever.

PM me if this was even considered for more than 1 milisecond :-)

Thankyou again

Glenn
Glenn, your account won't let me PM you, but I'm trying… ;-)
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Giles Reaves, aka 'selig'
Audio Illusionist, Musical Technologist
Selig Audio, LLC
USA
  #5  
Old 2013-07-31, 07:05
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Wensell Wensell is offline
 
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Oh no! Sorry! We can't find that sound.

Would love to give your song a listen, especially in conjunction with Selig awesome reply
  #6  
Old 2013-07-31, 11:33
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Nase Nase is offline
 
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackburton View Post
Hello all,
I have been working on a new track, and am having a hard time splitting the low end frequencies,....the kick, the bass and the vocals all seem to be sitting around the same range. I have PP'd the vocals with a trio of different eq settings, and tried blending them above the low frequency range, but to me it still seems all mashed up at the start.

Any ideas ?

Thanks
Glenn

https://soundcloud.com/spineccio/stories-to-tell
Hi Glen

You need to sidechain the channels. In some cases, you need to split any device by using the stereo imagers HIGH/LOW Frequency splitter to only sidechain low frequencies. The listener will just think.. wow its clear... and the listener will never understand, that sidechaining is working. You need to decide which track is more important. This more important track is allowed to supress other channels in his (the lead track) frequency range. Not in all ranges.

For example if you have any Kick, and you have techno music, it allows the kick to suppress the lead while playing in bass frequencies around 200Hz and lower. In new House/Trance side chaining becomes new view because the kick will supress the whole lead track. But if you only suppress the frequencies which comes from the kick as main (like 200Hz and lower) it works like a charm.

Only proepellerheads Reason can work like that transparent way because you can connect the cables and split and merge audio perfectly. I've seen in Ableton but could not work like I need to.

If you have vocals, think what kind of music you have. In some cases the vocal track is allowed to suppress the middle melody track (around 1Khz) by using side chaining. In some cases the bass is allowed to suppress the vocals low range. If no bass is playing anymore the vocals will become full powered again.


Hope that helps
Regards
Timo Boehme
  #7  
Old 2013-08-07, 19:54
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jackburton jackburton is offline
 
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Thanks Timo,
This side chain mixing thing is like hocus pocus to me.....
Here is the link to the track and I would love to hear you diseect it and actually see if this SC concept would make my track sound better. BIM, that the track is only at a demo stage...

https://soundcloud.com/spineccio/my-black-heart
  #8  
Old 2013-08-07, 19:54
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jackburton jackburton is offline
 
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Wensell, here it is.

https://soundcloud.com/spineccio/my-black-heart
  #9  
Old 2013-08-08, 02:43
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Hi. The mix sounds absolut great! I don't know if it because of my system but some high frequencies are wobbling quick in panorama that it sounds strange. But perhaps it is my system. Cool relaxing track
  #10  
Old 2013-08-08, 17:38
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MirrorEyes MirrorEyes is offline
 
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I really like your style, you're obviously an accomplished musician. It sounds like you've got a bit bogged down with the mix and paranoid about the vocal, which sounds to me like it's been aggressively HP'd so much so it's thin and harsh (easy to fix unless it's the recording), the vocal is not the problem, in fact I'd bet you could go easier on the HP and maybe LP off some of the harsh highs on it instead.

I agree with what has already been said about the bass it's to low in the mix, it sounds as though it should be driving the track and much more prominent. I'm certain it's an accumulation of subs and a sub heavy kick and bass conflict, in which case I would HP or notch out all/most channels above the kick and bass fundamentals, EQ the kick and bass sympathetically and/or sidechain the sub part of the bass so it ducks when the kick hits. Once you've got rid of unnecessary subs and sorted the kick and bass, you will be able to raise levels and achieve a more balanced mix.
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