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  #1  
Old 2003-03-12, 19:53
GetInSon GetInSon is offline
 
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Im sorry...come again?!?!

Hey,

Ok im new to this scene.. which makes it probable that what I'm about to ask is a REALLY dumb question but hey..

So far, to my understanding, the only way you can get nice new samples of instruments is by either adding refills or by sampling the instrument yourself. But is there a way of adding other samples used in different software such as Culture by Yellow Tools. This is a rompler with stacks of sample banks... but can you just point say the nn xt or nn19 to the folder where all these other samples sit and it'll use em like they were refills?

Also whats a VST?? It says this culture thing is VST 2.0 compatible... can Reason use VST's??

I understand Propellerhead are about to release a reload utility to allow reason to access a massive sound library from Akai programs... but are these VST's as well??

Yours some what confuddled...

Chris
  #2  
Old 2003-03-12, 19:57
arothman's Avatar
arothman arothman is offline
 
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Posts: 41
Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!

1) Samples can come from all over the place. Yes, they are available in Refills, and yes you can make them yourself. You can also purchase disks of them at stores. And there are sites like Hammersound etc. where you can download free ones. The modules in Reason open several different formats, and once the Reload utility is released, there will be even more (such as Akai).

2) VST is a format designed by Steinberg (makers of Cubase). VSTs are plugin modules that work in Cubase and other applications to provide effects and soft-synths. Reason does not use VSTs because it sort of 'is one'... Reason is already self-contained soft-synth application and does not provide the ability to load third-party modules in for stability and compatibility reasons.

Hope that helps!


Drew
  #3  
Old 2003-03-12, 20:11
GetInSon GetInSon is offline
 
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Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!

:Yeah thats really helpful...

So could I like by a box of samples, regardless of who manufactures them etc and use them in reason.. they dont specifically have to be refills?

If thats the case, whats the difference between going to a store and buying a set of strings samples, or buying the strings refill?

Sorry to be a pain!!

  #4  
Old 2003-03-12, 20:21
RejectedMusic RejectedMusic is offline
 
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Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!

1. No, they don't...

You can use any wav-aiff file + other sample formats...

2. The difference is that the samples in a ReFill is contained within one file. The ReFill-file...
  #5  
Old 2003-03-12, 20:38
arothman's Avatar
arothman arothman is offline
 
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Posts: 41
Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!


:So could I like by a box of samples, regardless of who manufactures them etc and use them in reason.. they dont specifically have to be refills?

Well, yes and no. You can't use just *any* sample format... Reason can deal with .wav/.aif, ReFills, ReCycle files, and SoundFonts. The Reload utility will let us bring in Akai format as well...

:If thats the case, whats the difference between going to a store and buying a set of strings samples, or buying the strings refill?

Frankly, Refills are less convenient than other sample formats because you can't navigate them easily and you can't just pull the sounds you want from them and then delete the rest. If you want 2 sounds from ReFill 'X', you have to have the entire ReFill on the computer.

Drew
  #6  
Old 2003-03-12, 23:19
blank's Avatar
blank blank is offline
 
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Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!

: Frankly, Refills are less convenient than other sample formats because you can't navigate them easily and you can't just pull the sounds you want from them and then delete the rest. If you want 2 sounds from ReFill 'X', you have to have the entire ReFill on the computer.

There are indeed some disadvantages to the format, but whenever people ask Props to reconsider the concept, I'm thinking - er, shouldn't this be directed to the sample CD makers? I mean, nobody *forces* them to comply with the ReFill format, they're perfectly free to stop right before they drop everything on the ReFill Packer and instead release the wavs/REXes/patches in source format. They choose not to because 1) ReFill adresses many of their copyright concerns, 2) it offers non-lossy compression which allows them to squeeze more stuff onto a CD (an opportunity which, unfortunately, few ReFill makers take), and 3) the mere mention of "Reason" and/or "ReFill" on the sleeve is a ticket to good sales because the user base is huge, solid and hungry.

Let *them* know what you think, they can do something about it. the Props already know what you think, and can't do anything about it.

/Fred
  #7  
Old 2003-03-12, 23:35
arothman's Avatar
arothman arothman is offline
 
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Posts: 41
Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!


:Let *them* know what you think, they can do something about it. the Props already know what you think, and can't do anything about it.
:

They can...

1) Develop better tools for browsing and sorting ReFill content. If I'm being forced to have a 50 MB file on my machine just for a single drum sound, at least make it easier for me to find that file.

2) Develop a method for 'password protected' ReFills, so that I can use the convenience of the ReFill format, and then purchase the right to break it open from the developer. i.e. I get the free "Super Synths ReFill" from you, and then if I only want to use one patch, I can pay you for the password that lets me extract it.

You said that the mere mention of "Reason" and/or "ReFill" on the sleeve is a ticket to good sales because the user base is huge, solid and hungry. I agree. So what use is complaining to the ReFill developers about the format they choose to release their samples in? Why should they choose effective useage over sales margins? That's sort of like whining to Sonic Foundry about there being no Acid for Macintosh... why should they develop their product in the format I want it in when I could 'just go buy a PC'?

Drew
  #8  
Old 2003-03-12, 23:55
blank's Avatar
blank blank is offline
 
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Posts: 620
Re: Im sorry...come again?!?!

: 1) Develop better tools for browsing and sorting ReFill content. If I'm being forced to have a 50 MB file on my machine just for a single drum sound, at least make it easier for me to find that file.

Absolutely, a bookmark system of sorts would be a huge improvement. What I meant was, it's not like they can reverse the decision at this point, or release some kind of unpacker, or anything like that.

: 2) Develop a method for 'password protected' ReFills, so that I can use the convenience of the ReFill format, and then purchase the right to break it open from the developer. i.e. I get the free "Super Synths ReFill" from you, and then if I only want to use one patch, I can pay you for the password that lets me extract it.

Great idea.

: You said that the mere mention of "Reason" and/or "ReFill" on the sleeve is a ticket to good sales because the user base is huge, solid and hungry. I agree. So what use is complaining to the ReFill developers about the format they choose to release their samples in?

I'm not saying it would change their minds anymore than George W Bush is sensitive to public opinion, I'm just saying that Props get 99% of the criticism and the sample dudes get 1% and that's like putting pressure on the Props for ReWire support in ProTools and Logic - first and foremost, let Digi and Emagic hear it. People seem to have figured that out eventually. If someone wants to waste any energy on this issue at all, the most bang for buck is in addressing the sample CD makers.

/Fred
  #9  
Old 2003-03-13, 01:40
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jonyo jonyo is offline
 
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ReFill format

Password protection on refill files that would allow the extraction of files might be convenient for the end user, but it would instantly make the whole refill format a LOT less attractive to the sample companies. I can't help but think that 90% of why commerical Refills started coming out as fast as they did when Reason 1.0 was first released was for that very reason, it allows the files to be used in a specific way (IE - with Reaosn only) without complicated copy protection that would bug the end user, but protects them from other sorts of use they don't want happening. Namely, pirating. You can pirate a Refill, but you'd have to pirate the whole huge thing, and you can't edit it to hide its origin. If someone could pay extra to crack open a refill, it would be less than 24 hours before the raw sounds were archived in a big fat zip file and making their way all over the internet.

A way to do searches and such in a Refill would be great, but I think that capability could be implemented into Reason itself without altering the Refill format. Reason 2.5.1 maybe?

The refill format isn't good or bad, it just is what it is. I'm of the opinion that it's a lot more attractive to the sample distributors than to the sample buyers. You can easily make Reason-specific files (IE - NN19, NNXT and ReDrum patches to go with the raw samples and REX files) without putting them into a refill, and I wish that was what sample makers were doing. Buuuuut they're not. Once ReLoad comes out, I don't think I'm gonna care much about that fact anymore...heh...

- R


::Let *them* know what you think, they can do something about it. the Props already know what you think, and can't do anything about it.
::
:
:They can...
:
:1) Develop better tools for browsing and sorting ReFill content. If I'm being forced to have a 50 MB file on my machine just for a single drum sound, at least make it easier for me to find that file.
:
:2) Develop a method for 'password protected' ReFills, so that I can use the convenience of the ReFill format, and then purchase the right to break it open from the developer. i.e. I get the free "Super Synths ReFill" from you, and then if I only want to use one patch, I can pay you for the password that lets me extract it.
:
:You said that the mere mention of "Reason" and/or "ReFill" on the sleeve is a ticket to good sales because the user base is huge, solid and hungry. I agree. So what use is complaining to the ReFill developers about the format they choose to release their samples in? Why should they choose effective useage over sales margins? That's sort of like whining to Sonic Foundry about there being no Acid for Macintosh... why should they develop their product in the format I want it in when I could 'just go buy a PC'?
:
rew
  #10  
Old 2003-03-13, 02:24
DamoMitsumu
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Posts: n/a
Re: ReFill format

Hi!

:The refill format isn't good or bad, it just is what it is. I'm of the opinion that it's a lot more attractive to the sample distributors than to the sample buyers.

I for want wouldn't want to buy a ReFill sample CD; if I find a sample CD that's both in "open" format and in ReFill format, I would buy the one that I'm able to use in the most number of applications. Even if I only had Reason, who knows what the future could bring. As blank said, it would make sense if they used the file compression to squeeze the amount of content in one CD, wich is never the case.

: You can easily make Reason-specific files (IE - NN19, NNXT and ReDrum patches to go with the raw samples and REX files) without putting them into a refill, and I wish that was what sample makers were doing.

It puzzles me that they're not doing this. I mean, are they only able to name "Reason" as a platform where you can use your samples -that is, name Reason so users can feel atracted to the product- when they choose the ReFill format!? A lot of times I've downloaded, say, EXS-24 programs from some web, and I've created NN-19 programs with them in minutes...

:So what use is complaining to the ReFill developers about the format they choose to release their samples in?

I understand this since, like blank said, people can blame Reason or the company that made it the wrong things. In many message boards of VSTi-hosts there are hordes of people complaining about this-and-that VSTi that makes the program go nuts, when many times it's the VSTi maker who's to ask -or blame. I guess the ReFill idea could be re-thought and improved, but it's also true that sample CD makers could came up with better and more creative ideas for the format.
Thom Revolver, krautdiscorock from hell!
 

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