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Old 2004-02-13, 08:45
krujap777 krujap777 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

I go to Berklee School of Music and just recently we had a point-to-point conference with Tal Herzgard, where he ran thru a quick mixing and Q&A session. He broke down each track one by one and asked students how it could be better, then applied his techniques and tricks to it to give it that professional sound.

With the kick sound it was very interesting. Using Pro Tools, he used some sort of FX plugin that took the kick, duplicated it, and then with a gate or something, took the sub frequencies of the sine wave around 60 hz, and applied it to the original kick sound. Name or description of the plugin escapes me, but it was one processor. This gave the originally weak kick a much needed BOOM that you love so much when it comes to bass. I'm sorry about being so vague but my memory ails me.

Anyhow, so far I have generally been unimpressed by Reason's kick samples and was wondering if there was anyway to apply a similar process to the sound, either thru Reason or another program. (I don't have ProTools, being a Berklee student has left me poor)

I want that boom!
Old 2004-02-13, 11:38
random's Avatar
random random is offline
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 7
Re: Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

If i understand you correctly, basically you could just add a parametric eq on the redrum channel where your kick is and boost the sub frequencies..

But if you wan't to do it more like he (probably) did it do this: add an audio spider after the redrum and split the kick channel into two. Run the first 'copy' to one channel in the mixer and the second one through a filter module set to lowpass (adjust the filter frequency to cut out all but the subs) and then to another mixer channel.

Hope this helps..
Old 2004-02-13, 12:34
benwalker benwalker is offline
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1
Re: Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

try this...

create a subtractor in addition to your normal redrum. Now hook the Kick Drums' gate out to the subtractor's gate in. You should find that the kick now triggers a 'blip' to sound from the subtractor.

In the sub, push the release of the amp envelope up - roughly same length as the kick. Set osc1 to a sine wave, drop it down to octave 0 (if your speakers can cope) or 1, and add some of the mod envelope (A-0, D-60,S-0,R-35,AMT-81 to Osc1), to produce a pseudo-kick sound. Mix in some distortion from a Scream4 (Tape saturation works well here) and use the cut and body controls to modify the sound accordingly.

Then go back to the main mixer to combine with the original kick source.

Hope this helps!

riviero @ soundclick
Old 2004-02-13, 15:55
perineum perineum is offline
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3
Sorry I can't help, but I have a question...

You're the first person I've seen on the forums that said they are at Berklee. I know Reason is at Berklee, as well as ProTools and more: I've been wondering if there's any interesting stuff being done with it. Do you know of an area for student websites where people post examples of stuff they're working? Or links to student sites? I'd love to hear how that kind of solid knowledge is expressed through Reason etc. I've poked around the Berklee site, but couldn't find anything.
Old 2004-02-13, 18:09
krujap777 krujap777 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Sorry I can't help, but I have a question...

Now it's my turn to say "sorry I can't help." This is only my 2nd semester attending, and students don't really go deeper into their majors until their 2nd year, so my network hasn't expanded as of yet.

Another thing you would never know unless you attended is that many of the students are pretty withdrawn and centered on their own projects, either shy or insecure about sharing work with their peers unless it's perfect. There's a great pool of talent here, so the competition is very great, but the criticism is just as strong.

Also there are over a thousand guitar players, drummers, etc., and you'd be surprised how many of them are not that knowledgable when it comes to music technology. The ones who are, I have not made great contact with. Mainly due to the reason that it is my first year, and the core studies such as harmony, ear training, private instruction, and so on must come before taking courses in your major.

I'll keep my eyes open though.
Old 2004-02-14, 14:03
perineum perineum is offline
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3
Re: Sorry I can't help, but I have a question...

Thanks for the insight, I can see how all that would be true. I have known and played with Berklee students and graduates and even spent a day going to classes as a guest of a friend/bandmate. The atmosphere was intense (but exciting). When it comes to student web pages, it seems visual arts students are more likely to share sketches and works-in-progress. Have fun at Berklee and good luck.

Old 2004-02-14, 22:19
driftpatrn driftpatrn is offline
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

regarding your original post:

check out this example peff made. a subtractor sine is triggered by one of redrum's channels. make sure your speakers aren't up too high or you may loose 'em. i learned a lot of other useful tricks from his examples also. check out his site.

i see you're registerd using reason adapted... maybe this won't open.
Old 2004-02-15, 00:17
krujap777 krujap777 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Re: Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

good ol Reason Adapted hehe. Actually I have both Adapted and 2.5 but only one is registered.
Old 2004-02-15, 03:07
shizm shizm is offline
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 10
Re: Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

yes that's a classic hiphop trick .. when i learned of it from an engineer i was told rick rubin was responsible for it

it's simple really. you use a noise gate with a key input and use the kick to trigger the noise gate, thus opening the gate when the kick hits and letting the sinewave through .. you can then adjust the release and attack on the gate to get the sinewave burst to fit correctly with your kick sound

in Reason I would simple use a subtractor for the sinewave and just program notes where the kick hits are and adjust attack and release on the subtractor itself so that the notes blend with the kick sound the way you want adding the correct boom .. you can also copy the kick pattern to the sequencer track so you don't have to program the notes individually

there's no reason it needs to be done using the noisegate key input trick or any special plugin these days considering how easy it is to sequence things (the trick comes from the 80's when sequencing was much more primitive)

you could also use the cv gate out on the redrum so the kick hits trigger the sub automatically if you want the boom on every single kick hit .. but that's not as flexible if you decide you want the kick "thinner" in certain parts of the song
Old 2004-02-16, 23:12
EDGE's Avatar
EDGE EDGE is offline
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1
Re: Adding low-freq. sine to bass kick for UMPF!

Now these are the kind of post that I like something refreshing stuff I can learn from keep em comming!!

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