Propellerhead Software
  #1  
Old 2006-04-27, 11:38
bleighton bleighton is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 16
Electronic Drum kits

Hi,

I recently bought the RDK 2 refill and am finding it to be an awesome set of drum sounds. SO realistic. They are breathing real life into my funk/hiphop tracks.

I know a few drummers, and what I'd really like to do is get an Electronic Drum pad set and use it via MIDI to trigger RDK sounds. I know this can be done, but there are a few issues I need to clear up before I spend any money on a drum pad set.

1) As I'd be triggering sounds from Reason, there is not much need for the stand-alone drum modules that most electronic drum pad sets come with. Most seem to have the feature of re-assigning the MIDI notes coming from each pad (which would be essential to make them work with RDK patches without a lot of hassle), but really this is the ONLY feature I need out of the module. Is there anyway to bypass having to use an expensive drum module that will mostly sit idle?

2) Latency. The one time I tried to use a drum pad set with reason, the drummer complained of there being a very small (but for a drummer very annoying) latency on the sounds being triggered. Has anyone used drum pads with reason much? Is latency a common problem? If so, what can i do about it?

If anyone has any knowledge/experience at all in this area I'd love to hear it.

Thanks :-))

Ben Leighton


  #2  
Old 2006-04-27, 12:11
rpugwash's Avatar
rpugwash rpugwash is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 98
Re: Electronic Drum kits

: Hi,
:
: I recently bought the RDK 2 refill and am finding it to be an awesome set of drum sounds. SO realistic. They are breathing real life into my funk/hiphop tracks.
:
: I know a few drummers, and what I'd really like to do is get an Electronic Drum pad set and use it via MIDI to trigger RDK sounds. I know this can be done, but there are a few issues I need to clear up before I spend any money on a drum pad set.
:
: 1) As I'd be triggering sounds from Reason, there is not much need for the stand-alone drum modules that most electronic drum pad sets come with. Most seem to have the feature of re-assigning the MIDI notes coming from each pad (which would be essential to make them work with RDK patches without a lot of hassle), but really this is the ONLY feature I need out of the module. Is there anyway to bypass having to use an expensive drum module that will mostly sit idle?
:
: 2) Latency. The one time I tried to use a drum pad set with reason, the drummer complained of there being a very small (but for a drummer very annoying) latency on the sounds being triggered. Has anyone used drum pads with reason much? Is latency a common problem? If so, what can i do about it?
:
: If anyone has any knowledge/experience at all in this area I'd love to hear it.
:
: Thanks :-))
:
: Ben Leighton
:
:
:


woooph... man, where do we start?

it certainly possible to play the RDK2 from a kit pretty usably.
ive never done it that way personally (i had my kit b4 the serious inroads were made with kit-based drum sounds in reason)
i recall a user discussing it on the porpellerhead forum about 12months ago or so. if you do a search for 'khazul' and then look through his posts for anything connected to drums you might well find some good info..
as i recall, he did manage to get quite a usable setup with a roland v-drums kit..

what your drummer mate said makes alot of sense too tho..

see theres a few parts of the process from the kit triggers to the reason devices for instance..

not sure what device you used for the drummer to trigger from, but the quality of this is probably pretty crucial.

roland v-drums modules tend to be pretty low-latency devices on their own.. if you then add to that a roland usb midi interface that has their proprietory fast transfer facility (i forget the name but if u check some of their kit out you'll see it in the specs for the driver)..

and then you need a pretty smart computer and audio card in order to have 'tiny' delay... we're talking (for a serious drummer not to be bothered) perhaps a few milliseconds at most..

if youre trying to do this thing at like 512samples @ 13ms or so.. then its no wonder they were a bit frustrated..

this is fine for keys...

but with a drum kit, its different since the kick alone for instance has the delay of your foot to take into account also (some of this delay is normally ignored when playing drum keys) but adding significant delay on top of THAT will make it unusable for most drummers..

certain top musos can work around latency by applying the hits/notes ahead of time.. but for many its unnatural to do this.. and rightfully so..

so youre talking about a killer computer and audio interface. a decent midi interface and a decent audio drum trigger to midi unit

an alesis DM5 (?) might well be enough with a real kit and some piezo triggers..

doesnt have to be a full digi kit..

as i say khazul's info is probably more helpful...

and there are others here that will no doubt have done what youre saying themselves..

hope that at least gives you some idea.

cheers bro
pug
  #3  
Old 2006-04-27, 12:26
bleighton bleighton is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 16
Re: Electronic Drum kits

: cheers bro
: pug

Thanks for all the info :-))

I have a PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and a M-Audio Firewire 410 soundcard. Is that likely to be fast enough for low latency? I guess I could always help out with the latency by disabling all FX and unnessecary tracks before recording drums.

Will search for khazul's info now...
  #4  
Old 2006-04-27, 12:34
rpugwash's Avatar
rpugwash rpugwash is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 98
Re: Electronic Drum kits

: : cheers bro
: : pug
:
: Thanks for all the info :-))
:
: I have a PowerBook G4 1.67GHz and a M-Audio Firewire 410 soundcard. Is that likely to be fast enough for low latency? I guess I could always help out with the latency by disabling all FX and unnessecary tracks before recording drums.
:
: Will search for khazul's info now...

yes, i would suggest that if you record the drums first or alongside only a few tracks in reason (as is usual practice anyway with tracking i spose) and focus on getting that down first.. then you should be well able to sort it with that... by this i just mean dont do it last with a ton of stuff in the rack and wonder why its glitching and popping all over the place heh

whether you choose a digi kit or a trigger module and piezos depends on what your drummer is using already.. if thats gonna be you drumming and you dont have a kit then its defo worth investing in a decent v-drum kit and also testing its midi to computer playback in the shop b4 u buy. harrass the staff to get a sale. its only fair if this is your intended end-purpose. (sorry sales peeps)

good luck anyway.
come back and let us all know how you got on. including any snyppets of audio which would be extra cool..

easy bro
pug ;-)
 

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