Propellerhead Software

Go Back   Propellerhead Forum > General Forum (read only)

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2009-12-22, 13:47
chrispropeller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Record and Tascam US-122L Latency Issue

Hi

I'm using a Tascam US-122L USB audio interface and Propellerhead Record. My system is a Core2Duo, pretty clean configuration. With the Tascam ASIO driver, I am able to manage buffer size down to 48 samples. Overall system performance seems not to be an issue. The problem is persistent across all settings of buffer size and sample rate of the Tascam.

My problem: When recording an audio guitar track while listening to a a couple of midi tracks, the audio track which is actually recorded is always a couple of ms behind the midi track. Adjusting the latency recording compensation has no effect at all.

I have muted the audio channel while recording and I'm using the hardware zero latency monitoring of the Tascam interface. There is defintely no guitar signal on out. No further hardware or MIDI controller involved.

Any ideas how to sync audio track and midi-triggered signal while recording?

Regards,
Chris
  #2  
Old 2009-12-22, 14:14
rudiarii's Avatar
rudiarii rudiarii is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,620
I would check the drivers firstly as it should all go in "harmony" ..... you could try ASIO4All to see if those drivers make an improvement...... sorry can't be more helpfull...
__________________
"dont let the world bring you down, not everyone here is´╗┐ that fucked up and cold" www.iansemple.talktalk.net
https://www.facebook.com/mennum
  #3  
Old 2009-12-22, 19:29
Monkeyzak Monkeyzak is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispropeller View Post
Hi

I'm using a Tascam US-122L USB audio interface and Propellerhead Record. My system is a Core2Duo, pretty clean configuration. With the Tascam ASIO driver, I am able to manage buffer size down to 48 samples. Overall system performance seems not to be an issue. The problem is persistent across all settings of buffer size and sample rate of the Tascam.

My problem: When recording an audio guitar track while listening to a a couple of midi tracks, the audio track which is actually recorded is always a couple of ms behind the midi track. Adjusting the latency recording compensation has no effect at all.

I have muted the audio channel while recording and I'm using the hardware zero latency monitoring of the Tascam interface. There is defintely no guitar signal on out. No further hardware or MIDI controller involved.

Any ideas how to sync audio track and midi-triggered signal while recording?

Regards,
Chris
Do a search on latency and you'll there there's a lot of us. I have dowloaded the new drivers and had a little improvment, but still not what I expected.

Do a search and you'll see what I mean. I'm hoping to find a solution coiz I'm not impressed so far.
  #4  
Old 2009-12-28, 12:15
chrispropeller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Update

I have found a great instruction on how to deal with latency compensation here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=48884

The bottom line is that the latency recording compensation in Propellerhead Record does not work, at least not on my system in conjunction with a Tascam US-122L and its ASIO drivers. The latency compensation funtion in Record has no effect at all. Tracks are not recorded on time. I have tried it with ASIO4ALL, too, but that does not make a difference.

I have tried the same setup with Cockos Reaper, and it works. Reaper offers the option to use the latency as reported by the audio interface and its driver as well as the option for manual adjustment of the latency compensation. I have recorded a metronome click by doing a short circuit of the Tascam input and output and I have re-recorded this audio track with both the reported latency and manual latency compensation. Results are very satisfying: Reported latency leads to a recorded track which is perfectly tight and manual compensation works accurately (see screenshot).

Screenshot:
1st track: Metronome click recorded with latency compensation as reported by interface.
2nd track: 1st track recorded with latency compensation as reported by interface.
3rd track: 1st track record with latency compensation as reported by interface + 20 samples on input.
4th track: 1st track record with latency compensation as reported by interface - 20 samples on input.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Reaper_Latency_Compensation.jpg (98.9 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by chrispropeller; 2009-12-28 at 14:33. Reason: Typo
  #5  
Old 2009-12-28, 18:43
chrispropeller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Solution (sort of)

Record latency compensation in Propellerhead Record works with external monitoring only. I had to go to Preferences / Audio and activate the radio button for external monitoring. Recorded tracks are in sync with click, MIDI and audio playback tracks now.

Three suggestions to the Propellerhead team:

Usability: Connect the record latency compensation up/down buttons with the monitoring radio buttons. Latency compensation has to be greyed out when external monitoring is not selected. Refine the layout of that preferences page, let these controls sit next to each other.

Documentation: Update this FAQ http://www.recordyou.com/download/in..._text&text=597. It is missing a clear statement that latency compensation is active in conjunction with external monitoring only.

Think about the use case again: Why wouldn't you allow record latency compensation with manual switch of monitoring in the sequencer view? Why do you assume that Record users who care for latency compensation have a high-end hardware rig where they handle the monitoring? Record latency compensation is an issue for users with low-end interfaces. Flexible monitoring is an issue for users who want to enjoy the benefits of the Line 6 guitar amp modeling. Both of them are your target customers.

More precisely: Since the Tascam US-122L has an overall latency of around 13ms in my current set-up (5 in / 8 out), I want to record guitar tracks using the Tascam hardware direct monitoring with a touch of the Line 6 sounds that you deliver with Record. Since my tracks are always recorded with delay when I switch to monitoring with Record, I can not do that. The solution would be to buy a high-end non-USB audio interface ... or to decide to not go with Propellerhead Record.

Last edited by chrispropeller; 2009-12-28 at 18:44. Reason: Typo
  #6  
Old 2009-12-29, 12:34
chrispropeller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
More discussions on settting up Record for guitarists

https://www.propellerheads.se/forum/...=119010&page=3
  #7  
Old 2010-01-03, 12:25
dioxide's Avatar
dioxide dioxide is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,290
Hi Chris, I've bumped this thread again as it's more relevant than the Record vs Reaper one (and because everyone knows Reaper = FAIL )

Please post screengrabs of your audio card settings.
  #8  
Old 2010-01-03, 16:34
chrispropeller
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi Dioxide, I deliberately did not post any screenshot of my audio card settings, because they are irrelevant to the record latency compensation. The question is not whether I experience 2ms or 200ms of latency in whatever kind of set-up, the question is how Record deals with that in terms of monitoring. I think based on Ernst's post in the beta tester forum it is safe to say that Record has not record latency compensation when you choose auto or manual monitoring. I do not need help with my audio settings (please read my very first post in this thread). Although my setttings are fine, I'd like to know if they are planning to switch it on ... or if not, what set-up they (both Propellerhead and Line 6) recommend for guitar recording. If the answer is: "Get the lowest latency set-up possible or you are f***d, because we rely on you to do human latency compensation" -- that's fine with me.
  #9  
Old 2010-01-03, 18:36
RobertBuning RobertBuning is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
My advise is this. You really have to buy a "Focusrite Saffire LE or PRO".
Zero latency, the only thing that you need is a firewire connection.
Plug and play dude
  #10  
Old 2010-01-03, 20:59
jetpilot00's Avatar
jetpilot00 jetpilot00 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispropeller View Post
Hi Dioxide, I deliberately did not post any screenshot of my audio card settings, because they are irrelevant to the record latency compensation. The question is not whether I experience 2ms or 200ms of latency in whatever kind of set-up, the question is how Record deals with that in terms of monitoring. I think based on Ernst's post in the beta tester forum it is safe to say that Record has not record latency compensation when you choose auto or manual monitoring. I do not need help with my audio settings (please read my very first post in this thread). Although my setttings are fine, I'd like to know if they are planning to switch it on ... or if not, what set-up they (both Propellerhead and Line 6) recommend for guitar recording. If the answer is: "Get the lowest latency set-up possible or you are f***d, because we rely on you to do human latency compensation" -- that's fine with me.
.....................

Last edited by jetpilot00; 2010-01-03 at 21:16.
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Record loses authorization after period of inactivity megamaeng Phead User Forum (read only) 2 2009-11-14 14:38
Line6 issue with Record Breaksandbeats Phead User Forum (read only) 5 2009-11-11 12:05
Record & Tascam FW1884 ? fallingman Phead User Forum (read only) 4 2009-10-07 10:34


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:50.