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Old 2011-08-17, 21:19
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Thoughts on chopping samples in Reason, Kong, Maschine

So, I love Kong it is better than sliced bread with the option of butter or gravy. But one thing keeps me using Maschine for chopping samples and that is just the raw speed of it.

For example in Maschine you record in your sample, then edit the start and stop times on the pad, then duplicate the pad and move on to the next part of the sample

In kong, you can record a sample, but if you duplicate the pad and edit the second pad it edits the first one as well ARRRGHH I wish there was a way to not do that.

So the fastest way I have found to chop samples in Reason is to record the audio on to the time line, use the shortcut keys for zooming make sure "snap to" is turned off and create a bunch of clips in the time line, then select them and right click and say create new clips (or something like that I am not in front of Reason right now)

Then you can load all those edited clips in to kong in one pass. And this actually works really well. But the Maschine way is better.

So maybe I am missing a way to do it, and that would rock. But if not could you add something like this? That would be awesome!
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  #2  
Old 2011-08-18, 04:09
jlgrimes jlgrimes is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreampolice View Post
So, I love Kong it is better than sliced bread with the option of butter or gravy. But one thing keeps me using Maschine for chopping samples and that is just the raw speed of it.

For example in Maschine you record in your sample, then edit the start and stop times on the pad, then duplicate the pad and move on to the next part of the sample

In kong, you can record a sample, but if you duplicate the pad and edit the second pad it edits the first one as well ARRRGHH I wish there was a way to not do that.

So the fastest way I have found to chop samples in Reason is to record the audio on to the time line, use the shortcut keys for zooming make sure "snap to" is turned off and create a bunch of clips in the time line, then select them and right click and say create new clips (or something like that I am not in front of Reason right now)

Then you can load all those edited clips in to kong in one pass. And this actually works really well. But the Maschine way is better.

So maybe I am missing a way to do it, and that would rock. But if not could you add something like this? That would be awesome!

I would think should focus on one of the three areas:

1. Recycle integration. (that way u could use Nurse Rex to quickly select slices and/or chunks, and use Recycle to make the chunks).

2. Support for External Audio Editors. (Audio Editors like Sound Forge will always be better than even what some of the most sophisticated DAWs can do for certain tasks and for Manual Chopping, Sound Forge Rocks).

3. Improve Reason's built-in editor. Reason has something with built-in sampling but the editing tools are what hurts it. Reason should capture the best of what hardware and software offers for sampling and create something truly amazing. Zooming needs to be precise and fast and accurate, being able to view by samples, calculate tempo and pitch-shifting, trigger sample by pressing midi keyboard from editor (possibly even playing the sample chromatically because you can hear dead air much easier)


That said I haven't did much manual chopping with Kong, so the duplicate problem you mentions sounds pretty tedious. I know that in Live, using drum racks each drum cell can be edited independentely without renaming or duplicating anything.
  #3  
Old 2011-08-18, 04:27
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Recycle integration would help, and I have live suite 8 as well and believe it or not maschine is still faster than the drum rack thing.

Doing my zoom, razer method is pretty darn fast. But with one little tweek Kong could be the fastest.

Honestly, I think the next step is recycle integration so i bet it will happen soon. Wouldn't that be sweet to have in the sample edit window?
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Old 2011-08-18, 05:28
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RECYCLE INTEGRATION IS WHAT I NEED!!

Dream police,...why cant you bounce that original audio track out as a sample and then duplicate the sample in the F8 editor a bunch of times and the change the start and end times for each duplication? Crop each sample as you edit and wha-la chopped samples. Or am I missing something?
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Last edited by Upright; 2011-08-18 at 05:31.
  #5  
Old 2011-08-18, 05:45
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No, I have tried it that way, but the biggest problem with that method is it is really hard to reference what you just edited. You are starting all over on your edit. If the sample editor would go to where I last placed the start and end markers on the next pad I edit then your method would be perfect. But it doesn't do that.

Does that make sense? I hope I am communicating everything clearly
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  #6  
Old 2011-08-18, 06:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreampolice View Post
No, I have tried it that way, but the biggest problem with that method is it is really hard to reference what you just edited. You are starting all over on your edit. If the sample editor would go to where I last placed the start and end markers on the next pad I edit then your method would be perfect. But it doesn't do that.

Does that make sense? I hope I am communicating everything clearly

I totally understand. Sounds like you need Recycle my friend.
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  #7  
Old 2011-08-18, 08:19
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Anomecron Anomecron is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreampolice View Post
So, I love Kong it is better than sliced bread with the option of butter or gravy. But one thing keeps me using Maschine for chopping samples and that is just the raw speed of it.

For example in Maschine you record in your sample, then edit the start and stop times on the pad, then duplicate the pad and move on to the next part of the sample

In kong, you can record a sample, but if you duplicate the pad and edit the second pad it edits the first one as well ARRRGHH I wish there was a way to not do that.

So the fastest way I have found to chop samples in Reason is to record the audio on to the time line, use the shortcut keys for zooming make sure "snap to" is turned off and create a bunch of clips in the time line, then select them and right click and say create new clips (or something like that I am not in front of Reason right now)

Then you can load all those edited clips in to kong in one pass. And this actually works really well. But the Maschine way is better.

So maybe I am missing a way to do it, and that would rock. But if not could you add something like this? That would be awesome!

Interesting - often record to an audio lane (fit to tempo) and will often keep snap to grid on as there are times when a straight 16 slices or 8 or 4 for that matter better suit the material than being clean on transient attack of a specific hit.
I do use your method also I must confess but depending on the material or the result I want to achieve I sometimes like using a more old skool slicing method.
The beauty of rexed loops is that with the chunk trigger mode you can assign any number of Kong pads to sample slot 1 and then get a X division of trigger points by the number of pads you use. I can then load the individual rex hits in a Redrum for programming fills, flams, rolls and what not with snares and kicks that don't clash with the original kit also.
I must confess though that Recycle integration is IMHO the next logical step in Reason's development cycle but then again, so do many of us.
Another trick is to extract a snare (for example) with a little bit of air before the transient attack - load that slice into an NN19 and modulate the sample start point so that sometimes the snare falls a fraction before, on, after or near the beat for interesting variations in a drum pattern that often sound more natural to the human ear even with rigid quantization values of the actual programmed drum events themselves.

Last edited by Anomecron; 2011-08-18 at 08:23.
  #8  
Old 2011-08-18, 14:45
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dreampolice dreampolice is offline
 
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Well I do have recycle, and its great. But it is a pain to have to dump things out to another program.

@Anomecron totally, and I know you are a MPC user as well. Wouldnt it be sweet to be able to do the zone-new program thing in Kong. Like you do with the MP. That would solve this as well.

But yea, I think the recycle integration would be the answer here.
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  #9  
Old 2011-08-18, 16:22
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Recycle integration please
  #10  
Old 2011-08-18, 17:09
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I'm actually glad you made this thread because I'm not sure if the Props are aware of how important good slice implementation is. I have to be honest here... I bought Recycle just because it was the easiest way to get slices into Reason... My main concern was not the Rex file format. Hopefully Props will come to the understanding of how much integration of Recycle and Reason will benefit their user base.
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